To think it's ridiculous how obsessed with a babies gender/sex ppl still seemingly are?

[Socksforxmas]

I have my 20wk scan in a couple of days and will be finding out the sex if they're able to tell. DH and I already have twin boys aged 3 and know this will be our last baby. It might be silly on my end to be surprised by this but a shocking amount of ppl in my life seem to assume that I'm desperate for a girl and would be deeply saddened by another boy.

I know that every now and again some 'gender disappointment' threads pop up but i had assumed that overall ppl had come to the realization that it really doesn't matter much. I'm not going to raise them any differently or push any sort of gendered nonsense on them. I don't really understand what it'd be getting from one and not the other. Ultimately it's a baby. As long as its not a puppy or anything like that I'm happy.

A lot of the comments have been fairly innocent 'bet you want a wee girl this time' but some have been more (paraphrasing here) "oh God I bet you'll just die if they tell you it's another boy! I wouldn't be able to cope with that"

Idk. I just really don't care either way and am surprised by the amount of comments I've received from family and friends about it. Anyone else experience similar?

We live in an incredibly sexist society, of course that is going to have a big influence

Are there any societies which are or haven’t met the definition of sexist if we accept that our society is incredibly sexist? Society is surely something that people form and not imposed on people by an outside force. So the fact that most (all?) societies have a distinction between men and women might suggest there’s something in it.

Yes it's weird how some girls are "girly". My niece is like that and my sister (and I) aren't.

@ThomasinaLivesHere Agreed. Even in the animal kingdom there are different roles for male / female animals. Are they all sexist, misogynists?

Or it just suggests that the world as a whole is sexist. Some societies more than others.

When they are younger there are little differences - b/g twins- dressed in babygros or dungarees. Non uniform school so both wore jeans every day. Both did music lessons, went to STEM club, attended science holiday clubs and were fussy about what their hair and clothes looked like.

Just because some girls are more girly despite not having girly mums doesn't mean it's not mostly nurture.
Just as my slightly 'feminine' boys don't prove anything.

But I know far more people who claim their dcs differences are caused by sex, whilst denying they buy into stereotypes, than I do children who genuinely have like/dislikes despite gender neutral parenting.

And yes. Animals have different roles based on their sex. But that's biological. In most species females give birth. So males get food. Etc

You can also parent gender neutrally as much as you like but it doesn't stop societies influence. Toddler groups, nursery, school etc.

Yes exactly.

It is annoying, but be patient with it: it is understandable and they’re just trying to express empathy.

As a mum of boys, I am sad that I’ll never have a daughter, and in particular never be able to help a daughter with birth, breastfeeding a newborn baby etc. Sure I might have a daughter-in-law who wants me to help, but her own mum will be more involved than me, unless her relationship with her mum is awful which I very much hope it won’t be.

Also, so many times at theme parks etc I want to go see the animals / musical show and the boys and their dad just want to do thrill-seeking rides, and I do feel wistful that if I had a girl she’d maybe come with me.

That said if I had to choose between only having girls or only having boys, I’m so happy I got boys, they just adore me 🥰 I do wish my DH had got to experience having a “daddy’s girl” too.

@Terfosaurus Where is the line between what is ‘biological’ and what is ‘gender stereotyping’. Sure, you can make the case for blue/pink and cars/dolls.

I would argue that females and males are quite different biologically. As a result we have completely different life experiences. Hence, girls mostly gravitate towards their mothers and boys their fathers. It’s the shared biological experiences that make it easier to relate to the same sex. For example, my mother and sister supported me throughout my pregnancy and the early years of my babies far more than the male members of my family. I don’t believe that’s due to sexism or gender stereotyping, but because the females in my life understand the trials and tribulations of pregnancy, post partum, breast feeding, early years of babyhood far better than their male counterparts. As a result, we have a closer bond and relationship than I have with say, my dad or uncles.

If you really dont care why are you finding out?

If I had twin boys and added another boy, than I think that other boy might feel left out. At least a girl would balance it out imo

Of course there are biological differences. I haven't actually said there aren't.

In fact I specifically asked about differences in pre-puberty.

Boys growing up to like football and golf (as per the original comment I replied to) has got absolutely fuck all to do with biology.

@Concannon88 I answered this already but tbf it's way back in the thread now so the short answer is that my pregnancy with the twins was a nightmare and I needed numerous scans and it got very tedious not being able to look at my children to avoid seeing the sex. This pregnancy is looking difficult too and I'd rather spoil the surprise and get to actually see them at the scans.

You could always just look and think you have an idea of the sex without ultimately finding out. Unless you’re a sonographer you won’t be able to tell for certain. I know loads of people who thought they definitely knew from scans but baby popped out the other sex.

Honestly something I've really appreciated about twin boys has been being able to see in real time how two boys raised by the same people, in the same environment and treated no different have still ended up as completely different children with largely different personalities and interests.

@Naptrappedmummy tbh it was extremely obvious the first time I looked at the twins properly that one of them was a boy. I'd considered trying to keep the other one a secret but it just felt so pointless. And with all the constant correspondence with my medical team it was nice to just use male pronouns and not have to speak in code all the time with all the neutral language.

Idk with how messy the pregnancy was overall it was nice to be straightforward and to the point with at least that one aspect.

I think it's also very possible to not have a preference or not think it's particularly important but to find out anyway.

I'm not a surprise person, hate them so that was never something I was interested in anyway. I like knowing all of the information available to me.

Ok, but it’s still an option if you really really wanted not to find out, it could even be fun ‘were we right or wrong’

But you've said you'll be finding out if they are able to tell. I've been for 26 scans and always been told to look away if the babies sex is obvious, including 4d.

@Terfosaurus If we accept that there are biological differences, why shouldn’t this also extend to toy choices and play styles though? For example, females are more nurturing by nature, so why wouldn’t girls prefer to play with dolls than say, cars?

Anecdotal sure, but I’ve worked with a lot of infants and toddlers, I don’t believe all of their decisions, play styles, personalities are based on gender stereotypes at that age. I also know people, one being my best friend, who has gone out of her way to encourage her young sons from their inception to play with dolls, kitchens, dress up… they unilaterally weren’t interested and gravitated towards more practical toys - Lego, cars, trucks.

For sure though, the differences are much clearer once they grow up. I would never judge a woman who has a preference or feels wistful for an adult female daughter relationship or an adult male son relationship. The two are very difference.

This ^^

I find the smarmy "well clearly you do care if you want to know" hilarious when some ppl literally just don't put that much thought into it. I thought I'd wanted a surprise with the twins but that pregnancy taught me that it just ultimately doesn't appeal to me much to wait when there's so many practical reasons to just find out as soon as you can.

There's no right or wrong way and both are valid but it's literally because the sex doesn't really matter that much that I want to just find out. Turning the birth into a genitals surprise party seems like the ultimate way to exclaim that you indeed care very much about the sex.

People play with babies differently though. Adults are more likely to be gentle with baby girls and offer them dolls to play with whereas they are more likely to be rough and tumble with baby boys and not give them dolls to play with.

Like I've already said too, you can be incredibly gender neutral at home but that doesn't change outside influences such as nursery and school.

We decided not to find out our baby's sex until after the birth. Someone close to me had lost their baby just before and to me all that mattered was that my baby is alive and healthy. But some close family was straight up angry with us for not finding out before, they were saying things like how do you even bond with this baby not knowing if it's a boy or a girl bla bla bla. I didn't listen and I don't regret. I was so relieved to give birth to a healthy baby the midwife had to give us a nudge to have a look at what we ended up with 😆

Because there's no way of knowing of those traits are inherent and caused by biological differences or learnt behaviour.

And all children have different personalities. I don't think these are largely sex based though.