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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Drama, Drama, Drama - SIL

450 replies

jumpingjackrabbit · 24/11/2023 09:03

DH's mother has travelled down South to spend some time with her grandaughter who she sees a few times a year and also to be able to spend some quality time with DH. We don't see her very often as they live a good 7 hours away from us.

Within 5 minutes of arriving yesterday, SIL is on the phone having a breakdown about something. I overhead MIL say did she not remember that she had come down to spend some time with us (I'm not bothered about spending time with me, but I do think it is important that she gets to spend quality time with DH and our DD). She then took herself off to another room and was gone for 45 minutes.

5 minutes after getting off the phone, it rings again. SIL again. This time wanting to Facetime.

We just sit down for our evening meal and BIL's phone goes (he has driven MIL here) and he says he will speak to SIL at 8pm. 8pm he disappears off into another room and after 30 minutes comes back, hands the phone to MIL and says he has had enough of being Siegmund Freud and it was her turn. She then disappears off for another hour.

All the time, DH was wanting to talk MIL about some things important to him and about work etc given he hardly sees his mum or gets 5 minutes with her.

We are meant to be going up for Christmas, but I said to MIL that whilst I do not wish to know what is going on, if things were not great, it might be better for us not to come up. 2 years ago we had a bloody miserable Christmas due to SIL and her mood swings, taking offence at everything etc. and personally I would rather enjoy a happy christmas with my DD and DH away from all of this drama as it is just not pleasant and awkward.

AIBU to think SIL should allow DH and DD to spend at least a couple of hours with grandma / mum?

AIBU to want to reconsider our Christmas plans to avoid another repeat of having every word we say taken the wrong way?

OP posts:
Mrgrinch · 24/11/2023 13:14

Someone needs to have a frank conversation with MIL and tell her that she's traveled 7 hours to get to you and SIL's calls are ruining her visit.

I'm perhaps too up front but I'd say to her to either switch the phone off or go home because there's no point you being here if this is how it's going to be.

LookItsMeAgain · 24/11/2023 13:17

I think you're quite within your rights to set out your stall now in relation to what will or won't be acceptable if you travel to your MiL to spend Christmas with your MiL.

Is your DH on board with your suggestion @jumpingjackrabbit?

I would really hope that he would have said to his mother (as soon as she got comfortable in your home) that you were going to all put your mobile phones on silent so that you could enjoy some time together as a family, but as he didn't, she was disturbed by her daughter phoning her and then your DH was disturbed by his sister phoning again later that evening.

Can I also ask you @jumpingjackrabbit, if his sister phones your DH on a regular basis when your MiL isn't around? Was he only being contacted because their mum was staying??

Appleofmyeye2023 · 24/11/2023 13:18

Soontobe60 · 24/11/2023 10:28

The OP quite clearly doesn’t give a damn about her SIL, and neither does her DH by the sounds of it. Of course its not just the SILs needs that count, but if she is having a mental health crisis, then her ‘needs’ probably currently top anyone else’s who are NOT having a similar crisis.
Maybe the OP would have had more sympathy from me if she had come on here asking how to manage a tricky situation rather than slating someone in crisis.
FWIW, I think the DH needs to speak to his sister, find out what the issue is, see if she needs immediate support or if she can access such support from her GP / counsellor etc. Then, once he’s ascertained her level of crisis / need, he can decide what action to take. But the OPs MIL is presumably a grown woman who can make her own decisions. Telling her she must not take the calls because shes supposed to be spending time with another one of her children is batshit and controlling.

My exh had mental illness for last 20 years of our 30 year marriage. I was his carer. I was also effectively single mum, the sole breadwinner and danced around to his tune becuase I believed his unreasonable behaviour was due to his illness, and “in sickness and health” milarky . In being his “carer”, I was effectively, in absence of any services, his CPN, his psychologist, his social worker, his occupational therapist. I am not kidding, as anyone who has been carer for someone with mental illness in this country will testify

I lost myself, my own mental health, and my quality of life trying to “help him” .

it doesn’t work. Only the person who is ill can help themselves with the input of medical professionals and appropriate drug regimes.

it is a very dangerous and damaging thing to be pushed into being a “carer” for a mentally ill person- 50% of people go on to have their own mental health crisis. The reason for this is the lack of funding, the lack of being able to fill vacant positions in the mental health services means “care in the community “ does not work. It is merely “drug and dump”

And a “crisis” does not last 3 years.

If SIL is so unwell she has to speak to her MUm or brother multiple times a day, Sil should be getting help by going back to her GP and asking for professional intervention. However, some mentally unwell people don’t do that, they instead rely on toxic co-dependant relationship with the people who stick around due to guilt, sympathy etc . It is easier than having to take drugs, talking with psychotherapist who will challenge her thinking, and doing the hard work of therapy (even if it is offered).

family stepping in , time after time, in a crisis is sometimes the worse thing you can do. Pushing back and saying to the individual “I cannot support you, I am not qualified, and you need to get professional help” is the better option. Sadly, sometimes it is even better to let the situation escalate to point of Sectioning, because whilst that’s horrific, it is a quickest route for them to be properly assessed and have proper crisis management, which is better in the long run.

so no, SIL Chris does not top anyone else’s needs. That is at best naive, and at worst the sort of crap jetted out by NHS/social workers to force families into carer roles that they are not qualified to do as they pretty much mean becoming a full time CPN. It actually just produces a wake of low level depression and anxiety and stress in the carers that are dumped on.

I have been very clear with my DC after my divorce. Do NOT ever get involved in their father’s care, or his care plan, or talk to his psychiatrist or crisis team. If they become aware he is in crisis then call the crisis team and leave it at that. I did not divorce their father becuase I could not cope any more, just for them to have to pick up the pieces of their father’s illness and his personal decisions on whether he complies with the treatment plans he has. It is my biggest fear, they’ll get dragged into being his “carer”.

justasking111 · 24/11/2023 13:19

In the middle of this shit show is a 12 year old watching her mother pulling the strings

CruCru · 24/11/2023 13:19

roarrfeckingroar · 24/11/2023 11:53

Sometimes it's a mental health crisis. Sometimes someone is just an attention seeking wanker.

Yes, I agree. If someone is having a hard time, it is reasonable to need some support - but if they are someone who lurches from crisis to crisis and endlessly needs support then that is a problem.

adjsavedmylife · 24/11/2023 13:26

muddyford · 24/11/2023 12:04

Loved this. I have come to suspect we might have an ASW in our family, rather than a MH crisis.

Can this be a new official mn acronym please? 😁

Vroomfondleswaistcoat · 24/11/2023 13:30

I'm presuming that MIL did her due diligence and assessed her DD as being capable of being left for a week so she could go and visit another section of the family. OK, crises happen, but SIL surely has a support network that extends beyond her mother? And BILs impatience with her on the phone would seem to indicate that it's not a sudden, extreme crisis, more a low-grade ongoing one.

SIL needs a coping mechanism that isn't just 'offload onto my mother'. It's not fair on anyone.

Appleofmyeye2023 · 24/11/2023 13:34

Op, I would suggest that your brother has a critical conversation with his mum. It sounds like his sister is co-dependant on mum, and him to an extent, and long term this will ruin your MIL health and well-being.

she needs to set some boundaries for her own benefit and mental well being

it is a horrendous burden on parents, siblings, spouses and children that they want to support and help. But the reality is , there is little they can do, they are not qualified professionals, and sometimes, becuase of that family relationship, they are the worse possible people to help. You cannot help someone with mental illness where you are emotional attached and involved. It becomes co- dependant very quickly.

id be asking if mum has had a carers assessment. If she has then got herself into a carers support group, which will allow her to become better informed about how to set boundaries, what she can help with. What she cannot. How the mental health system works etc.

but she needs to protect herself by setting strong boundaries. As does your brother. And they both need permission and help to do this. IdeAlly by a mental health support worker or a carer support group. The guilt is massive to step away and they have to overcome that.

This visit isn’t really the time to do this. Express concerns with dh about time spent on phone. Track it and then get dh to raise with mum the burden it is putting on her once she’s back home. Go in with suggestions over how she can begin to put those boundaries in place. Suggest to her what to do, not tell her what NOT to do. Find carer support group in area etc.

for instance, a good step might be simply that MIL phones SIL once per day for 20 mins to check in. And she sees her/has longer call just once per week. That’s it. She puts that boundary down and says she won’t answer the phone if SIL calls. If SIL has an emergency she should be calling the crisis centre, GP, or 911 or (if suicidal) 999. Not mum.

For this visit , as need occurs, Ask MIL if she would consider turn off phone at these specific times like meals, or events. Get her to send a text to daughter with a “I’ll be away form phone for a while and can’t be reached. Speak soon. Xx” type message so it doesn’t freak either of them out.

Re Xmas, nope sounds like that is too much for youand daughter. Maybe dh could travel up briefly for an overnight trip to have time with mum and Sil. That may be useful for him to see for himself how Sil is.

PremiumRaa · 24/11/2023 13:35

It's not fair of SIL to try and dominate your husband's time with his mother. YANBU. What does your husband think?

WhereIsBebèsChambre · 24/11/2023 13:38

adjsavedmylife · 24/11/2023 13:26

Can this be a new official mn acronym please? 😁

Good thinking!

MzHz · 24/11/2023 13:39

What I do mind, however, is DD has been so excited for her grandma to visit that her quality time is being taken away from her.

then this @jumpingjackrabbit is what you say. Mil needs to “forget the phone” upstairs or in her room while she’s with you/DD, let SIL wait for a bit and make sure BIL is on the same page. Phones off at meal times too.

your Mil has a right to enjoy her time with you all

MzHz · 24/11/2023 13:43

These ASWs are only so because people give them attention and don’t tell them to behave themselves

SerafinasGoose · 24/11/2023 13:43

adjsavedmylife · 24/11/2023 13:26

Can this be a new official mn acronym please? 😁

+1 for that! Makes a welcome change from CF, though there's a definite overlap ... 😁

TimeIhadaNameChange · 24/11/2023 13:53

Actually, you might be the perfect person to talk to MIL about it. Tell her that DH doesn't want to say anything himself, but he's really upset that he's been unable to get to spend quality time with her as his sister has spent time so much time on the phone with her. Would she consider putting her phone off for an hour and chatting to him and dd as it would really help?

kneehightoacat · 24/11/2023 13:54

Urgh, I couldn't cope

SIL needs to stand on her own and MIL needs to grow a backbone

BreadInCaptivity · 24/11/2023 13:55

Personally I think you've done all you can.

It's a conversation your DH needs to have with his mother.

Posts like this often raise a lot of sympathy for the person experiencing MH issues and rightly so, but it's also important to consider the wellbeing of the people supporting them.

Being depressed isn't a free pass to making the lives of others miserable or using your needs to control others.

I'd be interested (for your DH to talk to MIL about) what SIL is doing to look after her own welfare. Has she spoken to the GP? On any medication, getting therapy etc? If her ex is being a dick has she implemented techniques to make communication less upsetting eg email only or via a solicitor?

Is she actually clinically depressed or "low" post divorce and needs a sounding board/someone to rant too? What support does she have other than MIL?

I'd also consider how much MIL colludes in this behaviour. Sometimes people get satisfaction from being a saviour and being needed - creating a classic co-dependent relationship.

Realistically how urgent/important was the issue last night? What would have happened if MIL had said "can't talk now. Will chat when I get home?".

Is being "on call" actually helping SIL (based on the fact you are 3 years downwind of the divorce it would suggest not.

There are many people who live with MH challenges who take responsibility for their welfare, getting better/managing their condition and are mindful of people around them. Then there are people who are not.

Some because their condition itself prevents a lack of clarity re: selfish behaviour and others who simply don't give a shit about others and use their MH to ensure they are centred constantly whilst doing nothing to improve their situation (because they enjoy the control their condition provides them - they don't want to get better).

I think your DH needs to try and establish where his sisters sits re: the above.

I would stay away at Christmas tbh. It's not going to be fun irrespective of a better understanding of the situation.

sandyhappypeople · 24/11/2023 14:02

WhereIsBebèsChambre · 24/11/2023 10:03

@sandyhappypeople given that everyone has spent hours on the phone with the sil today, she got to fully dominate last Christmas and seems to spend all the time at home dominating her mothers time, why do you think 'no-one gives a toss'?
Unless you mean sil should always be the only focus of the entire family, and not jumping to respond to her, or spending time with someone else= not giving a toss?

given that everyone has spent hours on the phone with the sil today,

the important word there is EVERYONE, not everyone was on the phone, MIL was shouldering the burden, BIL (SIL husband? or other brother?) spoke for half an hour then handed back over to MIL.. so no, not everyone was on the phone to her, that's exactly my point, why is OP and DH not giving a toss what is actually going on with SIL? not giving a toss that MIL is obviously shouldering all the burden of whatever SIL problems are ALL THE TIME (it's only unreasonable to them when she's having to do that while visiting them).

I'm sorry but to not care when jot, but then complain when the only person in the family that does care is preoccupied with it is really quite selfish. They obviously don't give too hoots when MIL isn't with them, but don't care enough to find out what the issue is in the first place, for all they know it could be something really quite serious, in which case MIL/SIL are not unreasonable or it could be nothing in which case MIL is being very unreasonable by pandering to SIL, and OP and DH should actually be annoyed at MIL about that not just blame SIL.. but no, they're annoyed that SIL won't 'let' MIL have some alone time with them, she's a grown woman FFS, she can choose not to answer the phone, but lets blame SIL with the wacky mental health problems instead.

On the surface I think SIL should leave MIL alone for a bit, and I think MIL should bow out of taking the calls, it's rude to do that, but without any further information, it's yet again another classic mumsnet trope, instead of having a quiet word with MIL and saying "look the kids have been really looking forward to spending some time with you, and you're distracted and on the phone all the time, what's going on?/can you give it a rest?" or on finding out SIL is overreacting to something, even ringing SIL himself and ask her to give his mother a break for the duration of her visit, they just silently seeth.. saying it's all 'drama drama drama', when they don't have a clue and don't give a toss about what's actually going on.. they only care about the effect it's having on their visit, is as I said, bizarre.

NoTouch · 24/11/2023 14:05

I feel sorry for your MIL, must be so worrying and draining to have an adult child who is so dependent on you.

She is your dh's sister - surely he will know if she is having MH issues since her divorce or is just an intense and needy personality.

YABU to expect an answer to your first AIBU without knowing which it is. They are very different things, either way it is not a SIL issue it is a MIL issue to manage her daughter and her phone appropriately.

You second AIBU, discuss with your dh and spend Christmas wherever you both agree to.

EllieQ · 24/11/2023 14:15

justasking111 · 24/11/2023 13:19

In the middle of this shit show is a 12 year old watching her mother pulling the strings

This is a good point - what is SIL’s child doing while their mum is spending all this time on the phone to her mum / brother? If the divorce was so difficult, it must have been hard for the child as well. Who is supporting them?

WhereIsBebèsChambre · 24/11/2023 14:18

@sandyhappypeople apologies she'd been on the phone to dm (within 5 mins of dm arriving), a facetime call to the dm, another call to bil and the dh? So not everyone but you keep saying how no one gives a 'jot' for the sil. Do you think she cares at all for how her behaviour has affected everyone in the last 3 years including her 12 yo?

jumpingjackrabbit · 24/11/2023 14:32

@sandyhappypeople It's not that we don't care. I have tried to ask what was going on last night and whether MIL was okay and was shut down with "no comment" and MIL didn't want to tell me. DH has taken MIL out for lunch so maybe she will open up to him. Every single time DH and DD get 5 minutes quality time, there is an issue. I get upset for DD and DH who I feel get a little overlooked at times in favour of SIL and the endless drama. I call it drama because it is always about how awful and unreasonable her ex-husband is being. It has been the same thing over and over for the last 3 years so my ability to empathise has worn a little thin.

OP posts:
jumpingjackrabbit · 24/11/2023 14:33

@EllieQ she has had support from PIL. They lived with them for 3 years.

OP posts:
TrashedSofa · 24/11/2023 14:39

howdoesyourgardengrowinmay · 24/11/2023 13:09

Don't wait for MiL to say something. You already know what it's going to be like if you visit, so take the bull by the horns and make other xmas plans now.

Agree. I wouldn't focus on who's to blame for what, if it constitutes drama or can't be helped or what, just make it about the DC and you deserving a more enjoyable and relaxed Christmas. You know what's going to happen if you go.

rrrrrreatt · 24/11/2023 14:40

I don’t have any advice on the calls but I know about tense Christmases only too well because my sister is very highly strung and it sets my mum off.

I find it helps to not go for actual Christmas Day but for a few days afterwards (the pressure of a ‘special’ day can escalate things), to plan a few things out of the house (we’re going here, come or don’t type vibes) and if all else fails stay somewhere else so you can leave it all gets out of hand. I know that all limits quality time for your DH & DD but it’s not really quality time anyway if someone is on the rampage.

sandyhappypeople · 24/11/2023 14:53

WhereIsBebèsChambre · 24/11/2023 14:18

@sandyhappypeople apologies she'd been on the phone to dm (within 5 mins of dm arriving), a facetime call to the dm, another call to bil and the dh? So not everyone but you keep saying how no one gives a 'jot' for the sil. Do you think she cares at all for how her behaviour has affected everyone in the last 3 years including her 12 yo?

Do you think she cares at all for how her behaviour has affected everyone in the last 3 years including her 12 yo?

absolutely, she should, but with regards to her behaviour you've got to question why and what's being done about it, OP and DH don't seem too bothered about that, just annoyed that she's causing 'drama' and distracting MIL. If she's got genuine problems or MH issues, I think her sibling should be showing more empathy personally, or if it IS infact 'drama' on SIL part then they should be more annoyed at MIL for pandering to it, but they're not, which is quite telling, their annoyance is firmly targeted at SIL.

It seems pretty clear that they (OP and DH) don't CARE about SIL problems, they only care that it's now effecting them in some way, out of sight out of mind the rest of the time, if they genuinely cared about SIL problems and the effect they were having on MIL, they would want to know what those problems were and if they could offer support in some way (to MIL if not to SIL), the fact that they are not interesting in the slightest and are just pegging it as 'drama' seems incredibly selfish to me, but maybe that is the baseline in DH's family:

SIL could be described as selfish for letting her problems encompass MIL
MIL could be described as selfish for letting SIL encroach on her time with her son and family
DH could be described as selfish for not caring what his sisters problems are.

It obviously runs in the family.