To think that net immigration…

[Libertass]

Of 745,000 people a year isn’t what the 17 million people who voted for Brexit in 2016 thought they were voting for?

YABU = Yes, this is what Leave supporters voted for.

YANBI = No, they didn’t vote for this.

@jasflowers we have 5 million people on out of work benefits. We literally do have people ‘hanging about doing nothing’’.

@User18650674 my Mum, who I love dearly, comes out with the same kind of claptrap @Naptrappedmummy 's MIL does. I'm not being 'nasty' when I say my Mum gets a lot of her worldview from other people's opinions on Facebook and friends of a similar right-wing mainstream media-reading mentality she knows locally.

Mum had a conversation with my brother around the time of the Referendum in which part of her reasons for voting to leave the EU was to do with seafood sellers outside pubs in East London being legally obliged to refrigerate what they were selling because of '.... EU meddling in our laws ...'. Aside from the suggestion that Mum would prefer to contract potentially lethal food poisoning from unrefrigerated seafood, neither my brother or I could actually get to the bottom of what her beef with the EU was on this point.

No. That’s not what I’m saying. I do think that it’s good that people move around and share expertise. I don’t think it’s good that people in essential services like healthcare are leaving the UK because they get treated so badly, or that poor countries are losing their healthcare professionals to fill the inevitable gaps here.

Well said

👏👏👏

All rather pointless for those who voted purely because of immigration (and please don't say this wasn't many- my social media was full of these idiots at the time)

We have basically just swapped EU citizens many of whom were here as single people for the short term, for a great many of varying skills levels from developing countries ,who will probably stay for the long term - all whilst losing our own rights to work, live or retire in the EU if wanted unless you have an in demand occupation or in some cases pots of cash to buy your way in .

Immigration was never going to stop, we have birth rates far too low & our economic modrl
is capitalism.

The Brexit voters were told a lie about uncontrolled borders being the fault of the EU, when it was always within the government's gift to control. Now that all the Europeans have gone home we have such severe shortages of staff that we have to import people from overseas. Turns out immigration wasn't the reason Brexiteers grandchildren couldn't get jobs after all. This has nothing to do with the boats or asylum seekers. It's people legally here on visas given to them by the Home Office. If they wanted to, the government could have changed the rules any time they wanted. Including before Brexit as the people coming are non EU citizens. Particularly with an 80 seat majority.

I think we’ll see a change when AI kicks in

No- one seems to have mentioned the giant interference from outside sources. An weakened EU is of great benefit to certain nefarious actors.

Also, the fact that certain already enormously wealthy people benefitted extremely well by betting against sterling around the time of the referendum.

Blatant lies regarding the benefits of leaving were able to con ignorant people into voting leave. I am totally ashamed of being born here ever since the vote. If I had the money I would apply for the passport I am allowed to get via descent!

It's a bloody sorry state of affairs and the architect of the mess is now our foreign secretary. I fucking despair!

it’s funny really because our government is quite far right but they are so incompetent they can’t even deal with controlling immigration properly. it’s not the boats- there are estimated to be c 50k asylum seekers in the Uk- but 750k who have the legal right to be here. Now this definitely is a problem if our govt does not make provision in terms of schools doctors hospitals etc. so we have a right wing, cruel govt who are also incompetent. marvellous!

I know a couple of people who voted for Brexit because they thought it was unfair that people from the EU got preferential treatment with regards to immigration. They didn't want to stop immigration. They wanted to make it equally hard for those outside the EU to inside the EU. They wanted more immigration from other places with skilled worked rather than unskilled labour from Eastern Europe.

And that's the issue with the Leave campaign. It deliberately (and subsequently admitted) left Brexit to the eye of the beholder to mean whatever people wanted and instead deliberately targeted any kind of dissatisfied as a means to do this. Even if this meant completely opposing view points.

If only we could go back to 2016 we could have our EU neighbours back in our country again doing the bum wipe, fruit pick jobs and we could trade without filling out the form.
We could then ignore any other immigrant who wants to come over and the figures would be low, why didnt the brexit people think of that?
The boat people would not come and if they did we could send them all back to France who would happily take them.
It has been so very very hard with life after brexit and if only I could go and live in Spain as they have none of these problems at all and the sun shines all the time.

I’d hazard a guess they’re still not as furious as remainers who are forced to live with being out of the EU and can’t learn to accept it though.

For info I voted remain, would vote it again if I had the chance and was gutted when I woke to the news we were out.

True. Italy has no issues either with people crossing the Med and their neighbours saying no

There isn't a shortage of skills in the UK, there's a shortage of reasonable wages. British people are not willing to work hard for a salary that won't even pay for housing, bills and food, and why should they? Meanwhile immigrants often live in sub-optimal conditions and are willing to get paid barely anything as long as they get to stay here. The only thing legal mass immigration is achieving is devaluing salaries and worsening this cost of living crisis for everyone so that greedy rich people can have more profits by paying their employees less than they should.

‘Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier has appeared to make quite the u-turn on his Britain bashing views, now admitting “we have begun to draw lessons of Brexit”. The former candidate for French President called for national protections from EU law to grapple with “out of control” immigration, reiterating his view that France should establish a “constitutional shield” to prevent decisions from his previous employers. He also called for the “French people to decide” on these issues. Something Britain was bashed for letting its own people do… In an interview with the Financial Times, Barnier said:
“For 30 or 40 years, there’s a kind of interpretation that is always in favour of the migrants . . . We have to rewrite something in the [EU] treaties or in the [European Convention of Human Rights]. We have to create a constitutional shield [allowing national law to take precedence], and to ask the French people to decide. The EU today is no longer the EU that the UK left. We have begun to draw the lessons of Brexit.”
He blamed the European Court of Justice for policies that limit states’ freedom in the name of national security and seemingly reflected Sunak’s stance on the ECHR, claiming current policies have been written in favour of migrants. In a warning to all Remoaners who want to rejoin the bloc, he said the EU is not the same as the one the UK left…’

motes and beams, M. Barnier

Was that in the FT?

Blimey, yes there you go, we’re seeing break down of those institutions, it’ll pick up.

(remoaners surprised me)

It's concerning but it's happening because people believed lies and did no research into what Brexit actually meant whatsoever. Many Black and Asian people voted for Brexit precisely because they thought it would give better opportunities for family from outside the EU to come to the UK. It was clear thst we have an ageing population who want care homes to be paid without seling their houses and triple lock pensions, and a small cohort of people who could walk into low paid jobs in service, care and agriculture but they didn't, and don't want to do them. British businesses don't want to bother training people when they can get other countries to train them instead. The government did fuck all about any of that because they didnt have to. They could just blame the EU. It was always an 'us' problem yet Farage etc blamed 'them'. The people who should have held the government to account, including the Tory press, should have done their job properly. We have a failing democracy based on cronyism and failing institutions that rely on convention and honour to hold it together. When there is no honour there are no checks and balances.

There's an agreement in place and EU countries can send immigrants to another with no issue.

When we was in the EU we used to send all our unwanted immigrants back to other EU countries which I am sure I read in the Guardian was mainly France, so they used to take them but why would they now? We have peed away that priviledge.
The one thing that puzzles me every day is why the immigrants want to come here when they could stay in the EU. I would stay there and go to Spain. Baffles me.

I think we should be concerned. We already have a lot of people marginalised in this country and its understandable that some are going to feel threatened by this. Yes immigrants have added a lot to our country and will continue to do so but we have to ask how we are going to manage this when so many are struggling for the basics. The reality is that there is a competition over resources and with state services on the knees and a government who seems not to care, I'm worried that this could fuel the far right even more.

Perhaps we should stop people who don’t live in the uk buying up housing and land, and keeping it for investment purposes. And let councils build proper social housing. Then there might be less pressure.

Probably best to read the actual article, rather than something mangled by the Express or Mail to say something different.

Of course it is not what the 52% voted for. They didn't vote for placing people in hotels because processing is far too slow, they didn't vote for the Rwanda scheme, nor for the expansion of student numbers from abroad that is a significant amount.

Not a subscriber to FT, are there tokens or however it works