Laurence Fox libel trial

[newnamethanks]

Laurence Fox has been sued for libel by two people he described as paedophiles in a twitter spat. They described LF as racist. Trial began today, suing and counter-suing. Mr Fox arrived with his - written thus (daily mail) in single quotes - 'girlfriend'. Odd description.

Well, it's clear that there are many things LF doesn't understand. Whether that is because he is privileged (and he manifestly is, having grown up in his wealthy bubble with the best of everything) or whether he is just a thicko who is incapable of empathy and common sense is a matter for debate. It could also in fact be both.

In this photo he looks like he's auditioning for the part of a Gestapo officer

In your opinion it is not racist. In my opinion it is racist.

What have you based your opinion on? This is the exchange. Where was she racist?

Lady on QT-
The problem we’ve got with this is that Meghan has agreed to be Harry’s wife, and the press have torn her to pieces. ‘Let’s be really clear about what this is, let’s call it by its name, it’s racism. She’s a black woman and she has been torn to pieces.’

LF- Britain is the most tolerant, lovely country in Europe’, ‘It’s so easy to throw the card of racism at everybody and it’s really starting to get boring now.

Lady -: ‘What worries me about your comment is, you are a white privileged male who has no experience in this’..

LF- ‘I can’t help what I am, I was born like this, it’s an immutable characteristic so to call me a white privileged male is to be racist, you’re being racist.’

or whether he hides behind his privilege as an excuse to pretend not to understand what he does.

@Myfabby she used the colour of his skin against him. He had an opinion and she tried to shut it down because he was white.

The fact that he’s white was relevant to the fact that he was denying racism. It isn’t racist to point that out.

No it wasn't relevant. They were talking about Meghan markle (a bi racial woman not just a black woman or white woman).
Fox was not allowed to express his view on the subject of alleged racism towards her because he is white.
The lady actually used the colour of his skin as a reason why he could not have an opinion on this.

ah, now you're just being obtuse. It's not my job to educate you about race. Good luck.

Agree

@Myfabby and you are being very patronising. Just because I do not agree with your opinion it does not mean that I 'need educating about race'.
I have made a point and you have made a point. We don't agree. Fair enough. But to then turn around and be rude is not on.

LF is an exceptionally privileged white male. That's a FACT. It's likely, given his receipt of the term being applied to him, that he either has little understanding of how much this fact benefits him or he does understand it and is attempting to claim victim status on the wholly fraudulent basis that the other party to the conversation has impugned him by stating a FACT. His behaviour does him no credit, is not the fault of anyone other than himself and is an active choice he has made.

As I said above, if you use FACTS about a person’s immutable characteristics to discredit them, you run the risk of veering into racism/sexism/ageism/classism territory. Instead of going for the ad hominem the woman should have explained why he was wrong.

So. If a privileged white male is perfectly able to understand a black / mixed race persons experience of racism, then a trans woman understands what it is like to be a woman, right?

I thought he was recently engaged / married to a different woman

Quick google and they split just before wedding back in June. Hmm.

I didn’t say that a privileged white male is perfectly able to understand a black / mixed race persons experience of racism.

I said his race shouldn’t be used to discredit him. That means it shouldn’t be used to shut him up. I don’t think a person’s ‘lived experienced’ credentials should be used for or against an argument unless in quite specific circumstances. No one can claim to speak for a whole group. It would have been better to explain specifically what point LF was getting wrong.

It was QT, she literally had seconds to get her point across, not 10 minutes.

The majority of MN states that trans women can not understand what it is like to be a woman. So would say "I'm sorry, you are a man you do not have the experience to understand what it is like to be a woman". That is acceptable to you, yes?

So what is wrong with ‘What worries me about your comment is, you are a white privileged male who has no experience in this’. LF is male, he is white and he is privileged. He has no experience in what it is like to be black, or be held back or abused due to skin colour.

It’s not really harder to say, “I think you’re wrong because….” Even in the example of men and women, I wouldn’t use a man’s sex to discredit him. I would say, for example, “women often experience going out in the dark differently to men”. You don’t even have to be a woman to know this or make this argument. I don’t think what she did was awful, but it’s not a robust argument either. I also think LF could have made his point with more nuance instead of just saying ‘you’re racist’

Well, in his eyes he has been abused due to skin colour. He hasn't shut up about it since. Nor have his apologists. He's a very sensitive soul, with an almost 'woke' level of tenderness. He's not very bright.

Such a delicate snowflake.

no, he knows he wasn't abused, it suits his narrative. He's not very bright true, but he does know what he is doing. He thrives in controversy and enjoys any sort of attention. He wore a MAGA hat to a family gathering and his sister refused to engage with him. He was hurt that Ayoade didn't jump on twitter to support him. I really can't wait for this judgement.

Loved him in Lewis but undeniable he has had a self orchestrated fall and no one but himself to blame. Plenty of other posh boy white actors who manage to avoid being racist wankers (Kit Harington, Damian Lewis, Jack Huston to name a few)

Yes, judgement will be interesting. I'm expecting it to be followed by a statement equalling the vacuity of Rebecca Vardy's comment after her Vardy v Rooney result. "The judge didn't understand the case".

As I said they were talking about Meghan Markle. The lady sad it was a fact that Meghan Markle was torn to shreds because of racism and that Meghan Markle is a black woman (she is biracial).
Just because the lady said it was 'fact' it does not mean it is. People are allowed to disagree with her view.
Because Fox is white he was not allowed to have an opinion on this 'fact'. The lady used the colour of his skin as a reason he could not have an opinion to dispute this 'fact'.