Husband always late, can't take much more

[Dazedandfrazzled]

My husband is ALWAYS late. He's always been like this, but I'm sure it's getting worse, we now have a 2yo and quite frankly I am sick of it. I've talked to him about it over and over, he says he will change, but seems incapable. It's causing a huge strain on our relationship, not one week has gone by that he has managed to be 'on time'. Its actually starting to make me hate him and want to leave because every morning starts off with me feeling this huge stress and disappointment over it, which then impacts my whole mood and day. I'm in a negative rut and can't seem to get out of it. There are other things going on as well so far from a perfect relationship, but this is the core issue which then impacts everything else. I basically spend hours waiting for him (which then by default means I will be doing housework and looking after LO while he faffs around adding to the frustration).

I'm not even sure what I am asking, it seems like a stupid reason to break up a family but I truly feel that I can't take much more. WWYD?

In all threads like this, I always wonder, is the other party wringing their hands about the relationship dissatisfactions and difficulties? posting on Reddit/ Pistonheads or whatever about their issues? I’d guess not in 99.5% of cases. That tells you something.

Musings from my own experience:
The disappointment is that they don't want to help you, they won't try and change for your sake, even though you explain till you are blue in the face how you are being affected.

It's as if they are quite happy for you to suffer, so long as they can watch their telly/play their computer game/take forever to do stuff/make no effort.

Not the man you thought you were going to spend your life with.

I am the person with ADHD. I am totally incapable. The life skills of planning and doing a task in a certain order that somebody mentioned, I literally cannot do. T
Ordinary people don't realize your brain does this for you semi-automatically. It's executive function, or dysfunction if it doesn't work. The small things I can do, I do very slowly, because my brain is having to think through everything "manually", then forgetting at every moment having to re-remember and re-order, and getting distracted at every moment.

Many life skills that I could do very slowly, I have not been taught because it's too frustrating for anybody to teach me, and they don't think it's worth it as I will just be so slow.

Most people with ADHD have delayed sleep phase disorder, where our circadian rhythm is shifted forward and we fall asleep and wake up extremely late. Our brains are more sensitive to blue light and a lot of us end up nocturnal. Your husband is forcing himself to be normal, quite successfully by the sounds of it, but he will still have extreme brain fog in the mornings (and less extreme but still bad brain fog the rest of the time)

Having an abnormal circadian rhythm affects your sense of time. Most people with ADHD are also time blind. We know logically there is time and order, but we only have the sense of the now and the not-now. The more freedom we have (flexi time etc) the worse we get, because we need routine and deadlines to give us mental structure. Similarly, if you give him 1 or 3 hours to get ready in the morning, he will take ALL of that time, no matter how long it is.

We also cannot predict how long things will take.

Yes, it can be selective, because the high-adrenaline context of work, and getting into trouble for missing deadlines, physically makes the brain think clearer. But this is extremely stressful, and he is completely spent from using all his mental energy at work and needs home to replenish.

Also planning at work is different than planning practical, hands on tasks that he actually has to do. If someone sat him down and told him to plan someone's else's housework and daily chores, he'd probably be able to do a decent job of it, because it's easy to do when you're not in the thick of it.

Doing any kind of thinking or planning or any kind of practical task, is much more stressful for him than for other people. It uses so much more brain power when your brain is inefficient. "Faffing" is not a choice, it is what a slow, disorganized brain looks like to observers.

I am not saying don't leave him, because caring for somebody with impaired executive function is hard and nobody is obligated to be an unpaid carer. It also sounds like your husband doesn't fully appreciate that he has a serious problem, and that it's not you simply nagging him/giving him unreasonable demands. This lack of self-awareness will compound the problem.

But it's hard to see him being described as "pathetic" and the vitriol he is receiving. It hurts because this is exactly how I am seen. ADHD is a disability. He can't help the way he is. By holding down a job, keeping a regular sleep routine, avoiding addictions etc, he's already doing better than many people with ADHD - he is doing infinitely better than me. He's already working at his maximum ability, which is much lower than for non-ADHD people. On the scale of things he's an ADHD success story and deserves credit for his efforts. And yes I'm talking as if he is already diagnosed because he so clearly has it.

He's battling his own inefficient mind. Just remember that you can escape this situation, whereas he can never escape his brain fog, his slow cognitive tempo, or his inability.

Incidentally, I've noticed that men with ADHD/autism tend to think that everyone else is the problem, whereas women are more likely to understand that they are the one with the problem.

For example, men with it will wonder why everyone else is so fast and wonder how they do it, seeing themselves as average . Whereas women will recognise that they themselves are just very slow.

This is obviously a stereotype that not everybody fits, it's just a pattern I noticed personally.

Hi your not really being clear you say you want him to leave at 930 am when LO goes to nursery yet he comes home late??
My husband worked away for the first year our child was born it really did put a strain on us but it wasn't planned he decided it was best as he could build a future. I resented him he missed so much it took a lot of compromise and hard work to get where we are but we recently married and very happy back to our old selves and more. With your post I don't get you want him out of the house am then on time is he working from home? I'm a little confused. Is he working extra hours due to the type of work can't walk away workaholic?? Or very responsible position? Has he always been this way ? Maybe he's struggling to adjust to your new lifestyle with LO we have both admitted the change has been tough on our relationship but has got better as we've learnt to work together and parent together. Oh hang on he's faffing about from 630 am doing what.... Is he on his phone or something. If he's really not helping you out with lo when he can you need to lay down the law!! X

Not everyone has someone to turn to. I get what you mean but I think forums like this are good no one knows each other personally. If I needed to talk I'd rather put on here or similar than go to a family member or friend who then knows all my business and might make judgements about my husband if for example he's peeing me off. Surely you enjoy reading the posts or you wouldn't be in here yourself. Lots of entertaining posts on here I feel it's a safe space to post anyway and this lady has said she's struggling needs support not judging.

@Dazedandfrazzled have you ever actually just got up and followed him about to see what he is actually doing for three hours in the morning? why does he need a list for the morning when all he has to do is shower, teeth, dress, breakfast then out the door? what does his family say about his behaviour, was he always late for school? does his mind just go off at a tangent and he forget what he is meant to be doing so does something else?? how the hell does he manage with timelines at his work??

Whether he has adhd (or other mumsnet armchair diagnoses) or not it doesn't mean you have to tolerate the behaviour you're being subjected to.

I think you have three options:

1. Get used to it/tolerate it - seems that's not going to happen, and the price is your own well-being and mental health.

1. Support him to change/mitigate - but that requires his effort and consideration, both of which seem to be absent.

1. Exit the relationship - bearing in mind you'll still have to put up with it a bit as he will inevitably be late for contact etc, but at least you'd be more in control of your own time.

I agree with other posters who have said that your MH will take a turn for the better once you're out of the relationship. I had a man very similar sounding - I have no doubt he has some kind of ND in the mix but the main issue is that he's a self entitled prick who thinks his man time is more important than any one else's time especially a woman's time. A lot of what you've detailed about yours sounds very familiar particularly around the work/nursery thing.

I can confirm life is 2000% better without him in my daily life!

I don’t really understand your comment here. I thought the point of that poster’s comment was that the ‘other party’ usually doesn’t give a shit about the situation and is not having to post their angst on forums or discuss the issue with anyone. Because they are getting away without doing no mundane tasks or childcare and are more than happy just looking after themselves.

I don’t think he deserves any credit as he is not really acknowledging he has an issue in his relationship. He is not seeking help as far as I can see. His partner is struggling and drowning and he does not seem to care much or empathise with her. Her feelings seem invalid here. It’s all about him.

That was such an eloquent description. My good friend’s husband and son are ADHD and this describes them exactly. Incidentally, both are extremely intelligent, which can make it even harder to accept or sympathise with their slowness on these sorts of tasks ( as you say, you could organise someone else’s life on paper). My friend explained it as seeing all the nuances in every detail which means they do things very ponderously, focusing on detail as they go. I suspect if he HAS got ADHD OP won’t really get any relief until he realises and accepts it so he knows what he is trying to remedy as he seems to feel his approach is more normal and OP is weirdly manic. It may be he is assessed and the outcome is “no just a selfish idiot.” But it seems to me OP you really need to twist his arm to get assessed and see how he responds after that is clarified. You aren’t under any obligation to support him through difficulties if it destroys your MH; however living with unaddressed disability would always cause stress for a household. It may be that would ease/ and surely is worth a try? Have you actually suggested an assessment to him?

… and big apologies if you have snd I missed it. You have been a responsive OP and even the OP posts are long to skim read now!

@Dazedandfrazzled Your life doesn't have to center around him. I'm wondering if because of your MH you cannot see at the moment that you can surround yourself with extended family, friends, activities, things to do for you so that your whole life does not surround your partner completely. Whenever I've focused on my DH and kids alone, I can get hyper focused on how DH is/does stuff. You need things for you.

What helped us what having a rota of tasks around the house, we drew it up together and reviewed it every so often to add bits or say something isn't working for us. They'd literally be split and be very specific, for example, under Monday it'd say "clean toilet", "wipe down sink", "mop floor", "empty bin in X, Y, Z room". Usually it'd be one room per person but breaking the tasks up helped. My DH does not see what needs cleaning/tidying at all and I end up having to instruct him if I need help. If he asked I'd say "it's on the rota". It's the kind of routine I need to keep me in check too. However, if he says he can't possibly do it due to time without trying then I'm pretty sure I'd find that my breaking point.

He has a long time out of the house and I get the fact that he doesn't want to make lists before bed, if it's to do with work then I find it hard doing that before bed due to getting wound up. If it's work related could he not do it before he comes home? Where I work the project managers will do their lists before they leave the office and it's the same if they're visiting somewhere.

However, we can all give you tips and advice but the crux of it will be, do you still love him? Do you want to stay? If you can't see a future at all then it is time to call it quits. Get stuff organized and leave it that's what you want.

He does need to get used to being left with your DC for a day/weekend because either you need to start going out and living life more or he's going to be having contact when you split.

You’ve misunderstood the point that poster was making.

He hasn’t been diagnosed with ADHD but, even so, we all have a responsibility for ourselves, neurodivergent or not. It certainly might make it easier in some respects to have a diagnosis but he needs to recognise that how he is behaving is upsetting for his wife and things are not working for her. She has even told him and yet he won’t, or isn’t willing to, look at his behaviour and how he can make things better for her and their child. If someone sits me down and tells me my behaviour is upsetting them I move hell and high water to change it if I care a hoot about them. It might be hard and I wouldn’t necessarily expect to do it without help. What I wouldn’t do is doggedly carry on with the behaviour I’ve been told is upsetting. Not if I wanted to keep that person in my life. All the heavy lifting is being done by the OP, even the therapy she is saying she will do. He’s not offering to have therapy I notice. Yes, he may not be able to help himself but he could get help to make things easier for his family.

DH and his mother are the same. I once watched MIL make boiled eggs for DS.... it took her 25 minutes and yes, they were cold by the time he got them. It was mind-blowing.

If he takes 3h to get dressed and leave the house because it might be ADHD. How is he holding down a job? Does he suddenly turn into Mr average and productive the moment he walks in to the office? Or does he spend first 2h at work sorting out his paper clips, making a coffee and wondering around like a lost soul?

helplessness only at home so gets out of doing anything. Is so unattractive and resentment building. I couldn’t live with it either.

I think this is pretty common. A woman doesn't mind doing the bulk of the thinking and planning when it's just the two of them. Partly because we've been conditioned to do it and partly because quite often, if we were living alone before, the addition of an extra adult person isn't that big a deal (assuming the adult isn't actively making things worse). Then DC come along. And suddenly the work load goes up, the mental load goes up, the stress goes up. And you're tired, all the time. And then you realise that you're literally being left holding the baby and it's a disaster.

The problem here is that your H doesn't seem to CARE that his behaviour is out of step and that you are picking up the slack. If he genuinely can't cope with mornings, fine, what is he going to do to mitigate this in OTHER ways? My DH is better with mornings now, but for years, he would be unloading the dishwasher and sorting out washing late at night because he just wasn't capable of doing it in the day but he accepted he needed to be doing his share.

When I told him that I was breaking under the weight of it all, he listened. At one point, when we were trying to get on top of DS' diagnosis and issues and he was just cruising along ignoring it all, I eventually sat down and wrote him a letter. I opened the letter with the fact that I was writing it down because I didn't see how we could talk about it without it being a huge argument but I needed to tell him how I felt. I listed the ways in which I was drowning in the responsibilities and the stress. The ways that what he was doing/not doing was actually making things HARDER for me, and for DS. And because he's not a bad man, he read it and he paid attention and he is trying. And that makes it a LOT easier for me to an accept that he has genuine reasons for finding some things hard and most likely, he does have ADHD too.

Neurodiverse people tend to 'mask' where it's most important I.e holding down a job. So they will struggle at work and have to divert ALL of their brain power into it, leaving nothing for home.
Still, they often experience burnout and will experience long term anxiety and depression as a result of the effort it takes just to hold down a job.

I don't deny this, but I think NT people do something similar in that they put extra energy into work and then have little left afterwards. If you've got a family, you are going to have to muster up that energy from somewhere because caring for your kids properly isn't optional.

(I'm ND.)

Is he a perfectionist?
There's a strong link between perfectionism adhd and being very slow to do things

www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2021.707831

Extract

That’s really interesting. Thank you for sharing it.

The problem with that explanation is that it assumes that work is the most important and that all the other balls can be dropped.

It’s important to remember the mental health and general capacity consequences for the person who has to pick up the slack for the person who is only bothering about work. The ND person is not the only one at risk of long term problem here.

It’s also likely the case that many ND men manage to get away with this stuff because there’s a woman there picking up all the slack so that it doesn’t matter than their partner has deprioritised home and family. But that isn’t an option for lots and lots on ND women. In fact, they end up much more at risk of burnout because absolutely no one is OK with them dropping the family balls. No one fixes that or compensates for that. Indeed, they all too often have additional stress or without a career because their partner has decided that he can leave all the family stuff to them anyway.

How many women are able to faff around for 3+ hours in the morning while their partner has to look after their child (and can’t ask for ‘help’ because that’ll just make it even harder for the person stuck with all the work)?

@UnremarkableBeasts I think that for both ND and NT men, there is absolutely a view that work IS the priority and it's okay to let everything slack. It's a belief that comes from years of socialisation. It means that a man who has a "big" City job, earning lots of money with a (female) partner working in Tesco... when a child is sick, SHE must stay home because the Tesco job is less important to family budgets, there's fewer career issues etc. When SHE is the one with the "big" City Job and earning lots of money and HE works in Tesco, she must stay home when the child is sick because her job is more "flexible" and he's at "greater risk" of being fired....

I see it at Sports Day - lots of families with two working parents, but inevitably it is MORE likely to be the women who have found a way to take the time to come to sports day

I have lost track of the number of conversations I have had with girlfriends about this in our own lives. The way a man can get a new job or go through a stressful period and he just happily lets the home stuff slide. It is INFURIATING.

.