AIBU to take my son into the female changing room?

[JustKeepSwimmingAlong]

I’ve taken my kids swimming tonight, both have separate swimming lessons and I swam with one while the other had theirs. Eldest is male, 9 and has multiple additional needs including ADHD, ASD and some physical disabilities which means he struggles to change himself. Youngest is in nursery so can dress herself but does need supervision. We got out the pool and realised all the changing rooms were full. There were 8 classes on over multiple pools, as well as general swim on at the same time. There’s only two family/accessible changing rooms and the others are all individual. There were literal queues for the large changing rooms.
I then noticed people going out of the group change. I’ve not used it before, but there was a male and a female changing room, so we went in the females. There was no one in it so started laying out the kids clothes and getting them to shower. Got them out the showers and started to get them dressed and people started coming in. There were a couple of mums with young girls and boys, and then a teenager looking girl came in by herself. She immediately came over to tell me that we were in the female room. I explained my son needed help getting changed and the changing rooms were full, but this room had been empty so we’d used it rather than standing wet and cold waiting for a changing room.
We were nearly Finished and my son was fully dressed when she arrived. He sat next to me, facing the wall and we left within a few minutes. During this time, she did get changed, so we didn’t delay her. Now I’m wondering if I was unreasonable?
I don’t want to make anyone uncomfortable, but I really don’t know what else I could have done in the situation? There’s too many classes and too few changing rooms, and we need a larger/accessible one, but they’re the only ones with baby change so they’re really
Popular. The lessons are every week so now I’m wondering what I can do next week? Would I be unreasonable to keep using the group change if there are no other options available?

@Pipistrellus

They are in terms of development.

My DC is tall so already looks 9-10.

He is still 18m away from being kicked out by which point he will probably look 11.

Even though he will have the developmental capacity of a 6yo by that point.

No- which is why as I’ve said 3 times- my son and I go home in our swimming stuff if there isn’t a disabled facility for us to use. I agree entirely that female spaces are for biological females.

My point is that it’s really really depressing that so many women think that they can make that point then go one their way happy with their feminism ideals- completely ignoring disabled women and mothers of disabled sons.

‘The answer’ is a shift in attitudes of the whole of society away from thinking that disabled women/children are an afterthought. That we don’t want to teach our sons appropriate boundaries. That just not going to places is a reasonable alternative to us, and that basically it’s not their problem because right now it doesn’t directly affect them.

So you are all mostly saying if there isn’t mixed sex changing rooms you either don’t do swimming lessons? Or risk your child being assaulted? I don’t think so.

And that is part of the problem... even when there are facilities they get taken up by others.

I agree. Children without disabilities need to be using the single sex facilities, little ones with the parent, 8 and up in the correct sex facilities. Stop taking up facilities that other families need.

You shouldn't have taken him into the female changing room but your son should have had priority for the accessible changing cubicles and should not be expected to queue behind families who do not have a person with disabilities who requires them. Everyone else has other options.

@Robinni

The centre has provided facilities, she just has to queue. She didn’t want to do she chose to invade the female only space.

There isn’t any way to speed it up. Group change is faster and there is never a queue as you just go in and use it alongside everyone else, which is why it must remain single sex.

Individual cubicles and family change rooms will have queues because they can only be used by one person/family group at a time. When you need those facilities, you just have to wait. The OP needed those facilities but didn’t want to wait. That’s the only reason she took her son into a female space; she didn’t want to wait and decided that the women’s only space didn’t apply to her son.

If no facilities were provided for her to use with her son then that’s another discussion about lack of resources for disabled people with an opposite sex carer. But that’s not the case here. There are facilities. At certain times there is a queue. So you wait. You don’t use the female space.

Options with a disabled child where no provision is made

A) Some women being uncomfortable or inconvenienced for a short period of time.

B) Child being put at risk of injury/death

I know which I would choose.

@Robinni 'young' is age, 'small' is size. It's not about development.

If there are cubicles I really don't care who is using them, to be honest. It wouldn't bother me if they were unisex. Same with loos, changing rooms in shops etc. If I'm in a private cubicle I'm not bothered who's in the cubicle next door.

However, if it's a communal changing area then no, I don't think it's at all appropriate to bring in a nine-year-old boy, regardless of additional needs.

@Robinni

But the OP hasn’t said anything about her son being unable to wait due to an impending meltdown if he had to. She said she just didn’t want to stand around dripping wet waiting for a family change room to be free.

In the case, it was no about necessity. It was not about avoiding a meltdown. It was entitlement. She felt entitled to invade a female only space because she didn’t want to stand around waiting for her turn in the private change.

If her son was at risk of a meltdown, then you go to staff and tell them you need access to the accessible change as you have a child with a disability and they cannot wait. You do not walk into the female only space.

You do swimming lessons somewhere else, where there is family changing.

I would not want to get changed in front of a nine year old boy. I think you should have waited for family changing room.

@Robinni

The third option is that she uses the male groups change, and some men can be embarrassed and inconvenienced for a few minutes or asked to wait outside/change in the toilets if they are uncomfortable with a woman helping her son in their space.

If no facilities were provided for her to use with her son then that’s another discussion about lack of resources for disabled people with an opposite sex carer. But that’s not the case here. There are facilities. At certain times there is a queue. So you wait. You don’t use the female space
I agree with this.

A PP up thread made a good point about the problem of lumping baby changing in with accessible facilities when baby changing could easily be put in the men's and women's areas, freeing up accessible spaces for those who need it.
Something similar could be done with changing if there is a need for more family changing or more accessible changing.

The pertinent question at the root of it is why some people's default reaction to facilities not being as they want is to tell women and girls to fix it or budge up and accept a mixed sex space, rather than either parents choosing somewhere that has changing facilities that meet their needs or advocating for better management of facilities to meet their requirements. It feels awfully like telling women and girls to budge up, accept boundaries being eroded and be kind.

This is very true. It’s no more acceptable for disabled spaces to become the default for everyone than it is for female.

and C

Some men being uncomfortable or inconvenienced for a short period of time.

I guess that's unthinkable

At busy times, you have to wait. He just has to wait.. I think maybe you don’t understand this lads disability at all. Waiting may be akin to asking a severely arthritic individual to walk. The reason people get things like passes to go to the front of queues at airports etc isn’t just a nice to have, it’s that they can’t do it.

I'd imagine that the posters who aren't fine the boy also wouldn't be fine with the man in there.

But anyway changing rooms are even more invasive than toilets because they aren't in cubicles, you literally take all your clothes off in front of strangers.

She hasn’t specifically- I was just making the point that disabled women and mothers of disabled sons also have rights- so the overall attitude that we should just not go to places, or otherwise be negatively impacted for the benefit of able bodied women is unhelpful.

I don’t like going home wet (and it isn’t great for my wheelchair), my son also doesn’t like it but we suck it up because there isn’t an alternative that doesn’t put a male in a female spece- and as a feminist I’m not prepared to do that to other women and female children.

If everyone here talking about women’s rights and how women in my position shouldn’t use female changing spaces also noticed that women like me are being screwed over and mentioned it to staff (or even just adjusted their thinking to include disabled women and mothers of disabled sons) then we might all end up better off.

If her son was at risk of a meltdown, then you go to staff and tell them you need access to the accessible change as you have a child with a disability and they cannot wait. You do not walk into the female only space.. This has never been an option if my son was stressed. It’s rather like saying “if your 6 week old is crying ask it to be a bit quieter”. It just isn’t how things work.

@TomeTome

See my other posts above. The OP’s only complaint was that she didn’t want to stand around dripping wet. That was all. She didn’t WANT to. She hasn’t said anything about her kid’s extra needs meaning he cannot wait. She simply didn’t want to.

And, as said, if you cannot wait then you speak to staff to have priory access to the accessible changing. You do not invade the female only space. This wasn’t her first time at the place. She knows how it works and knows it is busy. Nothing has stopped her discussing her son’s extra needs with staff to ensure that, each week, he can hop out first and have priory access or simply be taken to the front of the line.

But, as said, this wasn’t about being unable to wait. The OP just didn’t want to.

@TomeTome

Jesus. Seriously. She takes her kid every week, and you think it simply isn’t an option to have spoken to staff about accessible changing to ensure she can have priory? You think every week, she just suddenly remembers they have swimming lessons, has no idea what she will encounter when she arrives and all the staff will be totally different and she can’t possibly have the arrangement in place? No, I guess not. Being proactive would just never work. Best to just tell women to shuffle off to the toilets if they want privacy because the female only leave is actually for females plus OP’s precious son.

I agree with you and this is my main issue with people who say that trans people should use disabled spaces. All that does is shift the negative impact of the problem to disabled people rather than women.

Have you raised the lack of accessible changing with your local pool?

I'd imagine that the posters who aren't fine the boy also wouldn't be fine with the man in there.
This. I wasn't fine with the man going in on that thread either.

Single sex spaces are single sex spaces. It's not the job of women and girls to budge up because of poor planning by parents and/or inadequate facilities for other groups.

But anyway changing rooms are even more invasive than toilets because they aren't in cubicles, you literally take all your clothes off in front of strangers.
Also this.

Speaking generally, people wonder why some teenage boys don't respect girls boundaries, but then their solution through juniors and early secondary is to teach their sons that finding suitable changing isn't important because he can come in the women's and the girls budge up.

No I think that as your child grows older you hit situations and obstacles that take you by surprise and sometimes you do something and then think “that didn’t feel like a good solution”. The reality of living this as apprised to the armchair experts is very different. Honestly it’s a bit like listening to parenting advice from a well meaning but childless friend.