To think that parents have children because they want to have someone to care for them in old age

[redskyanight]

Inspired by some recent threads.

It seems some people think that providing food, housing and paying for a child to do some fun activities means that said child is now obligated to care for them in old age.

I'd argue that these are basic parenting expectations and not something that is done with expectation of a reward.

I'd also argue that in families where relationships are close, adult children will want to take on supporting their parents in old age. Whilst, there may be entirely selfish adult children out there, I suspect in most cases where adult children choose not to support their aging parents, it's because family relationships are poor and/or the parent has needs that are too great for the adult child to meet.

So, please can we stop with the "but your parents cared for you as a child; of course you should look after them when they get old" posts?

Anyone out there admit to caring for their child because they expect care in old age?

Absolutely not, that's the last thing I want for any of my children.

I had them because I wanted a family who I could share my life with however long that might be for, share experiences with in childhood and hopefully as they grow to adults they will want to include me in their lives.

I categorically do not want them caring for me, I chose to have them, that was my responsibility. I am not their responsibility

I’m the child, not the parent, but I’m currently living with my parents (early sixties) due to ill health. My mother has outright mocked me for needing care rather than the other way round, and all my sick pay and savings go to them bar a little bit of pocket money I need for taxis to go to Drs and hospital appointments. They have often made fun of me because I won’t be able to take care of them in old age. Btw care extends to a once-daily visit in the same house to check I’m alive and sharing meals. They paid for me to go to private school from age 4 but I’m still obscurely being held to account for that. My younger sister isn’t expected to care for them or provide grandchildren (despite the fact that I’m infertile anyway and don’t want children) but I’m pretty sure I was born for those two purposes.

When I was having my children, I wasn't even thinking about getting old let alone needing someone to look after me.

In the developing world, sure. Here? No, I don't know any thinking person who had a child for the purposes of care in old age. I certainly didn't. I haven't lived in the same country as my parents for my entire adult life, so I would be baffled if DS restricted himself to living in the same country as DH and me in adulthood. The world is his oyster!

Anyone out there admit to caring for their child because they expect care in old age?

Go about any thread about not having children and you will find these people easily because they always trot out "but who will take care of you when you are old😱".

I suspect it was the norm in the not so distant past and it takes a long time to change habits and views. My DGP definitely expected their children to look after them and died well into their 90s and that is wha happened.

I feel like I should look after my parents either myself or financially supporting them because they have supported me, provided childcare etc but they don't expect that to happen even though it's likely they will only have state / minimal private pensions.

But surely it also works the other way in adult children having expectations of inheritance just because they are children even when they are estranged etc

God no!!!!

Last thing id want are my children ring for me.

But i will enjoy their company.

I'd rather top myself than have my children care for me.
As it stands our youngest will need care for life, either with us or support/assisted living when the time comes.
That responsibility will not fall on to our other children either.

No one is going to admit it. But as you acknowledge in your OP, any time there is a suggestion in a thread that someone may not want/be able to care for elderly parents they get called out for it.

I've never heard anyone say that on here or in real life. I have considered the fact that my kids will at least have each other when we, their parents are dead, but other than in reading about historical rural times in different cultures i have never heard of parents having children so they could care for them in old age.

Not here. The last thing we want is for our son to be saddled with looking after one of us. That's why we've encouraged him to "fly", go to Uni, move away for a job, etc. We don't want to hold him back. Both our sets of parents inflicting their needs on us, not just care in old age, but also helping them look after their businesses (shop for me, boarding house for DH), which meant our teen years were spent working in our parents' businesses at weekends instead of going out having fun with friends etc. Then when they finally sold them, they almost immediately went into being "needy" in terms of care and help etc. We both agreed before having DS that we'd never do that to any child of ours. We're not doing any of the "emotional blackmail" thing at all - we've made it clear he's free to choose when/if to come home to visit, and we've even told him he doesn't need to come home for Xmas if he has a better offer! Yes, it's a wrench to see him leave home and move to a city hours away, and it would be sad not to see him at Xmas, but it's his life and he needs to be free to live it.

It was definitely a thing in previous generations and the current oldest generation (80+). I remember lots of my older relatives harp on about being glad they've got a daughter to look after them, after having sons at first. There was a clear expectation that a daughter would be around to do the caring whereas a son would be too busy with his own life and work, etc. Lots of pressure on daughters not to move away, to live close to home, etc., whereas son's were given their freedom.

My favourite movie quote ever is from My Big Fat Greek Wedding: "I gave you life, so that you could live." And that is how I feel about my kids. If I get dementia (pretty likely given both my parents had it) and I don't manage to top myself in tine then I'm damned if my girls are going to put their lives on hold to come and witness my physical and mental decline in excruciating minute by minute detail.

People have children because people are animals and animals are programmed to reproduce. It is an innate instinct, a biological drive.

I agree with you that children should not have to look after elderly parents. Parents are responsible for their children. Children are not responsible for their parents. I think it is wrong to have your children look after you. If I make it to old age I'll have had my life. I won't waste my children's lives.

I hope I'm well, fit and healthy and won't need caring for.
I wouldn't expect anything but if they did help out, I'd really appreciate it.
I help mil out as much as I can because I think it's the decent thing to do and I want to help her out. She's in her 70's and doesn't need caring for.

I don’t think kids are obligated to look after you but I do think human decency and shortfalls in healthcare means kids/family members/relatives/people who know the person should step up. We moved back in with my dad when he was dying as did my sister because he was an epic human being and him and my mum deserved our help. People on here say they don’t expect their family to step in but life is easier with someone to help you at hospital appointments, chat to you when you’ve gotten bad news, be there when you have no energy. I fully believe in human decency and have seen it countless times- always better to help then to not

I had my first child when I was 22. I wasn't even thinking about old age! 🤣

I don't really think what you're talking about is particularly a thing in British culture OP.

I’ve worked with older ppl for decades and can count on the fingers of one hand they number of ppl who’ve said “i want my children to look after me”

no one wants this

however, in my experience ppl also rarely make arrangements for their old age. So they continue to say “ i don’t want my children to look after me” but what they generally mean is “I don’t want my children giving me a bath or wiping my arse”. They don’t mean “I don’t want my children to help me as I age & my health fails and every day things like shopping, driving, & housework are now hard and I can’t manage technology anymore” and it’s those everyday things that make the difference.

Most of the posts I see on here regarding care duties are if GPS won't provide regular free childcare then don't help them when they are older.

I think it's very unlikely that anyone has children young specifically to care for them when older (for a start, save the money you'd spend raising children and you'll have plenty of cash for a really good caregiver when you need one!).

But I do think a lot of families have expectations of their children when they are older.

Some of those are fair and some aren't - assuming a healthy, normal family relationship, I don't think it's unreasonable for younger generations to help and support older ones. But there's a big difference between that and putting their entire lives on hold/putting up with abuse/ making their lives significantly worse as a result.

Christ no! You don’t even consider that you’ll get old when you’re younger and having children.

I don’t want my children taking care of me, I want them to be living their lives and having adventures of their own.

Hmmm I certainly didn't have children so they could look after me in old age, this wasn't a thought that occurred to me, but I can't really agree with viewpoints like yours either. The "children shouldn't have to be grateful to their parents" argument seems to be very fashionable these days and I can't say I agree with it - and this is a viewpoint I've formed as a child, not as a parent. I am grateful for all my parents have done for me and I think that's appropriate.

I don't think that the fact that somebody chose to do something/was obliged to do it negates the fact that you should be grateful for somebody doing a huge amount for you. Yes if you feel they did a bad job for whatever reason this will dampen or even eradicate your gratitude, and I don't think it should be used as emotional blackmail to try and guilt trip your children into doing things for you. But I do think that in general children should be grateful to their parents for all they've done for them.

I don’t expect my son to care for me in old age and I am making adequate provisions for myself accordingly, but there is something broader going on in terms of the disintegration of community and the lack of social safety net that has resulted from the ‘me first’ mentality of years under the tories.

Parents shouldn’t expect their children to one day be burdened with their care, but the alternative for many (hideously underfunded and inadequate state provision) is bleak beyond words.

Elderly people deserve to be cared for in safe, secure and pleasant environments with people who treat them with dignity and respect. Knowing that that simply isn’t available in the UK today because of aggressive austerity policies and the systematic dismantling of the welfare state means some parents probable do fervently pray that when the time comes for them to need some help, their children will be in a position to assist.

Not something that has ever crossed my mind. My sons are young adults and I hope they emigrate, I have more ambition for them than to be waiting around to nurse me!

I would hope that my children helped dh and I to access support if we need it when we're older. That's not the 'reason' we had dc, no definitely not. But we are good parents with close healthy relationships with our dc. I wouldn't expect either of them to become our 'carers' as I wouldn't necessarily assume they would even live close by as adults, but I hope that if we needed help to sort out whatever services were required, that one of them would help as best they could.

But yes, I agree that there are no guarantees. I had a friend, who was an only child, who died when she was 18, and her parents who had always had a child and expected she'd be with them for life, were childless. I am NC with my own mum. I live in a different country anyway, so never would have been around to provide any practical care, though I would have done my best. But we no longer have any sort of relationship, and while I don't know what I'd do if ever she came to me and said she needed help (I doubt she would), I don't plan to generally be involved. I am an only child. She doesn't have many long-term close friends left either (for the same reasons as we are NC). No idea what will happen to her. My dad died when I was young, but I imagine it would be similar - at least in the sense that we would have lived a 10 hour flight from each other, so no practical help.