To think that parents have children because they want to have someone to care for them in old age

[redskyanight]

Inspired by some recent threads.

It seems some people think that providing food, housing and paying for a child to do some fun activities means that said child is now obligated to care for them in old age.

I'd argue that these are basic parenting expectations and not something that is done with expectation of a reward.

I'd also argue that in families where relationships are close, adult children will want to take on supporting their parents in old age. Whilst, there may be entirely selfish adult children out there, I suspect in most cases where adult children choose not to support their aging parents, it's because family relationships are poor and/or the parent has needs that are too great for the adult child to meet.

So, please can we stop with the "but your parents cared for you as a child; of course you should look after them when they get old" posts?

Anyone out there admit to caring for their child because they expect care in old age?

I'm another one who's seen people who swore their kids would never be obliged to help them in old age do a complete 180 once they actually needed help.

My DP use tech - online shopping - state services their own money to plug huge gaps and siblings often to get to appointments that seem to take no account of how hard those are for a patient with very limited mobility.

IL have relied on their own good health, their cousins and siblings and own money.

I think there is currently a lack of care in older people services in some places. FIL being suddenly discharged with catheter still in late Friday with no-one answering phones no care instruction - MIL rang round family to find someone who had experience till they saw someone on Monday. Dad spent week on side ward to A&E getting no treatment no care and not having existing medication administered till sibling kicked off and suddenly there was a ward space. Experiences like that - and I have many more - do leave me worried about old age care - but I'd hope but time we get there things won't be this bad.

I do wonder if this "who will look after you in old age" stuff is coming from people seeing/hearing poor care sparking anxiety and perhaps there are shifting expectations at play in wider society. I'd very much hope never to be a burden to my children.

Not in my world....I live 300 miles away from my adult dcs and that won't change. I never cared for my parents 30 years ago either.

My mother has told me and my sister not to put her in a care home. She is absolutely adamant that she is not to go into one and if we were to do so it would be completely against her wishes. She has not asked for our views on us caring for her, she just expects it.

Same here. My mum refused a care home as her mum died in one. I've been subjected to abuse from my sister for not being mums carer whilst freely stating she can't and won't do it. She doesn't care it would compromise my job and personal life or consider that when mum dies I'd have to pick up the pieces and start again.

They've stopped at nothing to try and get me to do it when she is 100% dependant for care. She can't do the most basic tasks.

Probably in the "old" days you would expect your spinster daughter to care for you.
Everyone had a spinster aunt in the days of many children did they not?

I absolutely did not have children to care for me and I never want them in that position.
I know my mother feels the same.

My MIL though has the mentality that she paid for education, so her children are always in her debt. I will not involve myself with this.

Different cultures probably have different views

Never occurred to me. It certainly wasn't a factor in choosing to have kids. My feeling is that I'd hope my kids want to/are able to help a bit if I'm older and in need of it, but I wouldn't expect them to dedicate their lives to it and I will try to set up my affairs so that there is money for me to have care/go into a home in a way that makes it not their problem. So no, I've never seen it as their purpose to look after me when I'm old.

From threads on MN I have come to the conclusion that a lot of posters think:

Childfree women are selfish because parents are raising the next generation of carers who are going to have to look after the childfree women, but that next generation are also going to be higher rate tax payers who provide the pensions for the selfish childfree women

So either carers wages are going to rise dramatically or what the average MN poster actually means is that someone's child is going to have to be a carer but not their child because they have bigger plans for them. But somehow only the childfree are "selfish" when they need someone else's child to be their carer.

So I would say no, a lot of parents on MN don't have children to look after them when they are old, they just assume other (poorer) peoples children will be able to provide this service. But some of them still use it as a stick to beat childfree people with.

Erm no. This has never even crossed my mind.

I can’t say it was a driver for me to have children at all. The thought of possibly one day being a grandparent was, though. But that’s far from guaranteed.

But you’re right that it’s often used as a stick to beat people who choose to remain childfree - ‘who’s going to care for you in your old age?’

Thats really tough, I have only had a bit of experience of it when my dad was sick and mam wouldnt do much for him which meant my sister and I had to step in. It takes over your life. Its has a huge impact, everything else stopped for those weeks. My children's and Dsis's children did suffer from us spending all our spare time over there.
Its not something you should be forced into.

I think care can take various forms. I have a childless relative of 90, they are in a home and I have LPA. I don't have to care for them as in washing/toileting/feeding but the responsibility is still difficult e.g. doctor asking me to agree to DNA and then moving on to asking me to agree to no hospital admissions, having to give permission for flu jabs or covid jabs, updates with social worker about deprivation of liberty.

Going into a home doesn't mean the family just wash their hands of them

Most parents will of course say they have no expectation that their children will look after them in old age, because that’s what is socially acceptable to say. But they are probably secretly hoping they will provide some sort of care. No one wants to die alone.

Absolutely no to your statement OP. What an outdated view.

What a ridiculous post

Me neither. Can honestly say, it’s never entered my head.

Am busy at work Caring for the elderly. .Definitely do not agree with you .Shall reply later if I can be arsed .

I think that's why my mum had kids. I definitely know she had more than 1 because you know, the first child could die as a child!

Well, after a long time caring for my mum, who had breast cancer, then dementia, I have already told my children, in no uncertain terms, that I do NOT expect similar from them. It damn near broke me. I never expected anything from them anyway, but that has been reinforced now. I loved my mum, but I wish I hadn't allowed myself to get sucked into being her carer.

If you'd bothered to read the thread you'd see your view isn't the only view. Many parents do expect it.

The thing about becoming a carer for your parent is that it's a gradual transition, so as a daughter you don't often notice it happen. My mum was pretty self reliant. In her eighties she was still driving, shopping, cooking etc. we met to go shopping once a week and had lunch at each other's homes etc. then she had a major operation. She was in hospital for 6 weeks and went to a respite place after.

Her walking was never the same, so we bought a wheelchair for big shopping trips. She was still driving, just needed a stick. She found it hard to get round a supermarket, so I sorted online shopping for her, the same list every week really. But then she started saying she didn't need that and when we went out shopping she would give me a list to get from Big Tesco, while she waited in the car...

And then she needed hearing aids. So I'd go with her to the hospital appointments because she couldn't hear very well. And because the hospital was massive we may as well take the wheelchair...

And then she fell in the shower and broke her hip...

And so I started doing the vacuuming and all the gardening when I visited, along with the grocery shopping, and the hospital appointments. And so she sold her car because her glaucoma got bad, but it was fine, she wasn't going to be dependent on me because she had loads of money and could easily ring a taxi. Except she never ever did. Because it was easier to get me to take her. And I had the wheelchair in my boot.

And then she got dementia.

At the age of 33, i was pregnant, i had 3 children, no siblings, and cared for both of my parents before they died weeks apart. I'm 40 now, and it's the last thing I'd ever expect from my children. I did it myself because i wanted to, and i loved them. It was my choice, and never expected by my parents.

*It's easy to say you'd never expect that of your children but just wait until you're old and vulnerable.

My mum said the same and now she's dying I've been through hell this year with pressure from her and my sister to be her carer*

DM always said she wouldn't expect her DC to care for her in old age. Then as she got older I got the 'why don't you come here (she was in Australia) so we're nearer?' I knew what I was being lined up for, so I deflected it every time. She had DB running around after her, as well. Not a problem, he wanted to do it, but I think that it's easy to say you wouldn't expect DC to care for you when you're not yet in that situation.

Nope not me. DD lives a 3 hour drive away and I have told her that, under no circumstances, is she to uproot her life to take care of me.

For me, I think people throw out that "but who will care for you" but it's not all about physical care. None of us would want our children wiping our asses! But equally we'd hope that our adult children do at least care ABOUT us, not specifically for us. For child free people, if they lose their partner, maybe don't have siblings or many friends, then obviously the danger is isolation. So if you have a close relationship with adult DC, it can mitigate that. And you're less likely to be discovered months after dying alone at home!

Now that's not the reason I had DC. I just always had the biological urge. But I do think that "care" means a lot of things, not all physical work. I would never want my children to physically care for me. But yes, I hope we are still close and I have them to talk to and share fun times with. Or to move a heavy piece of furniture for me or show me how the latest tech works if I need the help! Just things you would do with and for anyone you care about.

I have made it absolutely clear to my children that I do not expect care from them in the future.

I had my dd 15 years after my younger son but I made sure that, like her two older brothers she left home by the age she of 25 to make sure that she had an independent life. I don’t want any of my children to take physical care of me but hope that they will want to take emotional care of me by ringing or visiting me.
My sons live about three hours away from me and my daughter lives 5 minutes walk away, out of choice. I do a lot of childcare for her but that is my choice and does not mean that I expect the care to be repaid in the future.