To take my toddler to a psychologist

[Whyisitsosohard]

I acknowledge my 2.5 YO is what most MN users would consider naughty but everyone I speak to in real life says her behaviour is typical for a toddler. My biggest concerns are her hitting (me, her sister, the pets) and bedtime refusal.

She doesn't nap and is exhausted by 7 but she shouts and screams every time we try and leave the room. We've had the same routine since birth. Invariably I lose my temper after 12 hours of being shouted no at.

We struggle to implement consequences because there's nothing she cares about us taking away (tv, toys etc). We explain every time why hitting is wrong or why she needs sleep. Her communication is excellent so I don't think that's what's frustrating her. We praise good behaviour all the time so it's not as if we're always telling her off.

Nothing has changed recently and nursery haven't said they have any specific issues but always refer to her as headstrong, spirited etc so I'm sure they also find her a PITA at times. I want her to grow up to be a kind person but I'm scared she's walking all over us.

My therapist is also qualified in child psychology and has offered a joint session. Aibu to accept?

I don’t think one joint session with your therapist can do any harm but 2 and a half is very young, the terrible twos are a real thing, so don’t go looking for any deep, permanent problems. What can seem unreasonable, worrying behaviour in a 2-3 year old often disappears ( I had that with one dc and don’t get me started on a dgc! Now the gentlest, most respectful, polite teenager but as a 2 and 3 year old…………)
It’s possible you’re not as consistent as you think you are so dd is finding ways to chip away with what you think is a strong front.
Are you and dad together?

I think looking into support with the sleep via a sleep therapist instead. At two I don’t see what could be achieved by a psychologist realistically

I think a joint session would be useful to help you with ways of dealing with her. Why the sane routine though since birth - what is it she sounds v overtired and then you shouting as well can’t help.

I would take a lot of MN advice around parenting toddlers with a huge pinch of salt.

I think in recent years on here there has been a push back against gentle approaches to parenting and a very authoritative sort of approach has crept back in. I know a lot of toddlers and they all present challenges. It won’t be anything you’re doing, but posts on here can get you anxious and questioning yourself.

There's not a huge amount of point in imposing consequences on a toddler - such young children don't have much control over tantrums/meltdowns. A lot of walking away whenever possible, plenty of positive attention when she's calm, and make sure you're modelling "good behaviour" yourself.

A family counselling session wouldn't do any harm, but it would probably be more for your benefit than hers.

I would focus more on strategies to help you deal with the behaviour.

I think the session might be useful for you in terms of skills/strategies to manage her behaviour but the behaviour in and of itself sounds extremely normal.

I very rarely shout.. by lose my temper I mean that I'll say that's enough and threaten something that invariably I don't follow through on (I know I know..). I don't think we're consistent but her dad and I are together and try not to undermine one another's approaches. Of course she'll say I want daddy or vice versa if she's not getting the response she wants. Plus all the usual time wasting. I want water, I want the toilet, I want another book etc.

When you say your therapist is also qualified in child psychology, what do you see them for? No judgement, I saw a few people from the age of 15 to 30 years old but not feel like I’ve had to for the last 8 years.

I mean I think every mum could agree having a 2.5 years toddler is tough! They test your mental and physical strength hourly… literally, as I have typed that my child has just pushed the dining room chair into the kitchen and is now standing on top of the chair, trying to grab oranges out of the fruit basket… she’s also 2.5 years old.
I have to say, and I do believe our toddlers am much better behaved at nursery, and I do believe that nursery staff have a lot more patience than I personally do! We struggled with biting and hitting, she was called out twice for biting another toddler at nursery, we have now replaced the biting with hugs… weirdly she only bit people she loved… and I’m not too sure where she got the idea biting people close to you. She stopped tv or screen time, and the hitting stopped a few days after. I use to have it on for when I cooked and did laundry, now I just get her to wash veggies when I’m cooking (I guess it’s technically water play with veggies in her eyes) and load and unload laundry when I’m hanging stuff up. The sleeping… I can’t give you much on that as I cuddles mines to sleep then roll out when she’s asleep. I know… but I can’t get out of the bad sleeping habit I created!
I don’t think there’s any issues with seeing a child psychologist, I would also love for you to do an update once you do you see her with your toddler and tell me if you think it makes a difference. I would be so tempted to see want too if you feel like it helped.

Headstrong children need a different approach - one that is softer on the outside but actually has them playing into your hands.

Never use punishments (eg taking toys away) as that will only make them care less about things.

Instead, create a bond that appears to them to be equal in status but actually gets her behaving as you want and need. E.g. When she is in a calm mood, say, casually, 'I've been thinking. I know you don't like napping and that's fine but it does mean you get tired later in the day and we all end up shouting at each other which is sad. So we need to find the best way for you to have a cosy rest so you don't get too tired. What do you think would work?'

Listen to her answers and always say, 'Oh yes, that's a nice idea/fun idea.' If they are preposterous, just say, 'Wouldn't that be great?' then suggest making a cosy corner for her with blankets, cushions, cuddlies, a picture book, a small snack and drink etc and suggesting that she just settles there whenever she feels cross or sad or overwhelmed. If she resists the idea, ask what would work better for her - a little den or a rocking chair etc. Make it a joint project. Involve her in the decisions - which cuddlies would be there? Which blanket? etc.

If she hits anyone, say, (not as a punishment!) 'That's not like you. You are not a cruel girl. Go and snuggle up in your cosy place until you feel calm again. When you feel nice again come back to say sorry and have a hug.' That way you are reinforcing the idea that she isn't a hitter, rather than that she is.

This approach is really scoffed at by loads of people, but it teaches headstrong children how to self-regulate their emotions. It worked like a dream on DS1 and he was one of the most headstrong children I have ever met. He is the most laid back adult I know.

The 'push back' against gentle parenting has most likely come about as the result of actually seeing & experiencing the behavior of the little treasures that have walked all over their parents/teachers/other caregivers as they have got older and lived a life of unlimited boundaries.
You can set boundaries and expectations for behavior from a very young age, discipline is not a form of cruelty!!
@Whyisitsosohard toddlers push buttons, its what they do! If you feel you would benefit from taking your child for a session then do it. Personally I wouldn't bother, if nothing changes by 3.5 years I would then consider my options.
For now I would make sure things are consistent and follow the same routine daily (even at weekends for a while). Wake up at the same time, meals at the same time, bath and bed at the same time etc. Take everything back to basics and see if that helps her settle.

Thanks everyone. Honestly our routine is really consistent. I will try the cosy / quiet corner as it's something that was also recommended by my therapist but I do not think she'll use it. She says no to pretty much anything I ask her to do. I see her for anxiety generally for the poster that asked.

someone needs to point you in the right direction op, which i hope the psychologist will do
otherwise do the nursery have any suggestions?

no is a top word for a 2 year old op
then "why" when she is a bit older

it really depends on how you ask the question op
can you walk downstairs?
rather than come here
works better
be positive

A consistent routine doesn’t mean it is the right one and it sounds as if it isn’t if it is causing these issues. What are her wake and sleep ties, I know she doesn’t nap either and food times

Have you read this? Some great strategies in there. Also the Whole Brain Child is great.

Also don’t see any harm in seeing a psychologist. Everyone could benefit from one imo.

None of that sounds terribly unusual for 2.5. They really can be terrors.

We also had terrible bedtimes at about that age, a groclock and sticker chart helped enormously with the getting ready. Would you not just stay with her til she's asleep? Both of ours needed that at that age.

The other thing with a headstrong child is to give them lots of controlled choices and remove the chance to say no.

Eg. Put on your coat. Child says no.

Coat or shoes on first? Gives child choice.

It's absolutely exhausting and frustrating to do but will help

This.

Parent of a spirited head atrong toddler here. Hitting is a phase. Shes over it mostly. Children at this age don't have impulse control. So anger often takes hold.

It sounds to me like you need some strategies to parent and parent with connection. Threatening a 2 year old whether you follow through or not is just creating a barrier between the two of you. Why are you threatening her? Because shes over tired and can't control her emotions fully and is acting in an age normative way? Imagine how you'd feel in that position.

Have the therapy. But have it for you. Learn strategies to de-esculate the situation when dealing with meltdowns. Consider altering bedtimes and sleep routines too, look. For support if you need it. Maybe 7 too late with no nap. Also why are you leaving the room? How long does she take to drop off with you there? If not long i'd just lay with her, shes only 2. You may also find if you can deal with the connection the sleep improves. Looking at it logically a child who feels unnconected to their caregiver and unloved is going to cling on more tightly. If shes feeling emotionally secure she may be happier to be left.

Exactly. It’s a push back because, as some see it, children are brats who need forcing into line.

No one approach works all of the time. I don’t think I have a ‘style’ as such and I have no issue being firm when I need to, but what I do find is that a lot of the time on here someone struggling with a toddler is just told something unhelpful like ‘you PARENT them’ without acknowledging that parenting is really hard! Or, there is currently a lot of advice about strapping unwilling children into pushchairs to force them into compliance. Obviously sometimes you have to but it isn’t what I’d call a parenting strategy as such, it’s just forcing a child into a pushchair.

Toddlers are tough going and can be very defiant and stubborn. It’s easy to think everyone else’s is compliant and easy and they aren’t, and you panic and think you’re doing something awfully wrong. Impulse control is very poorly developed with toddlers and many don’t get it until close to 3. So some behaviour is literally like disciplining a baby for crying or wanting a night feed, they can’t help it.

My point here isn’t that any one approach is right or wrong but just that toddlers are hard and one thing won’t ‘change’ then. It just gets easier, gradually

If honestly sounds completely normal OP. I've had three children, all very different personalities. Some children are just more testing than others at a young age, it doesn't mean it'll stay that way.

She doesn't want to go to bed? That's is SO normal! And hitting can be too.

It doesn't hurt to keep an eye on it, but I really don't think it warrants a therapist.

Also - if you take your child to a therapist, make sure they're qualified to support paediatrics (children).

We've got a gro clock but will try a sticker chart as she does love them. I'm not staying with her to sleep. We've got a 6 month old and I only get an hour to myself by the time I've got to go to bed. She wakes around 6/630 breakfast straight away then lunch at 1130 (same as nursery) and dinner at 6. She has a morning and afternoon snack at 9 and 2.30ish. We always try and get her to nap around 1 but are rarely successful. She has a tonne of outside time and endless exercise. Screen time isn't ideal but I need it.

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And also schedule away time for yourself so you get a break. Eg if you've been looking after child all day then partner does bedtime and you go out for a walk/swim/yoga/supermarket. And then vice versa