To take my toddler to a psychologist

[Whyisitsosohard]

I acknowledge my 2.5 YO is what most MN users would consider naughty but everyone I speak to in real life says her behaviour is typical for a toddler. My biggest concerns are her hitting (me, her sister, the pets) and bedtime refusal.

She doesn't nap and is exhausted by 7 but she shouts and screams every time we try and leave the room. We've had the same routine since birth. Invariably I lose my temper after 12 hours of being shouted no at.

We struggle to implement consequences because there's nothing she cares about us taking away (tv, toys etc). We explain every time why hitting is wrong or why she needs sleep. Her communication is excellent so I don't think that's what's frustrating her. We praise good behaviour all the time so it's not as if we're always telling her off.

Nothing has changed recently and nursery haven't said they have any specific issues but always refer to her as headstrong, spirited etc so I'm sure they also find her a PITA at times. I want her to grow up to be a kind person but I'm scared she's walking all over us.

My therapist is also qualified in child psychology and has offered a joint session. Aibu to accept?

You sound at the end of your tether but equally everything you say is within the range of normal.

It's also completely possible for her to both love nursery and be intensely subconscious incredibly jealous that you get to stay at home with the baby.

Some children are just harder work.

Probably best thing is for you to have a break, so that you don't do bedtime 3/4 nights a week and get your partner to do it. So you do the day and then he does bedtime so you get a break

The other thing is as a parent you can’t (and shouldn’t) stop them being angry and upset. They are normal emotions that we all feel. Negative things happen to us. You can help her deal with the emotions (tiredness/hungry) etc

Sounds over tired, if possible persevere with the naps.

We do try but she is no better behaved when she naps. Earlier bedtime we can try but she is also waking several times in the night and it's so exhausting.

You're the problem. You need to evaluate what you're currently doing to cause this behavior and what needs to happen instead. Taking a toddler to a psychologist is a waste of money.

DD and I were referred by CAMHS to a psychologist when she was 18 months old. Went for over a year and it was incredibly helpful for me and therefore also for DD.

DD had incredibly bad separation anxiety, didn't sleep - stopped napping at 6 months, could easily go 48 hours without sleep and has had a midnight bedtime for since she was 2 years old (now 14) and refused to touch solid food till she was nearly 3.

Also happens to be very bright, exceptionally stubborn and persistent as well as severely dyslexic and ADHD. Oh and she had loads of energy and was a runner from a very young age.

Solutions have been bribing like crazy, picking our battles and ultimately medicating. Tech has also been a life-saver - both tracking devices when she ran away in museums, and screens as she got older (she's now incredibly good at creative media and music tech, on track for top grades in both next year and planning a career in that area).

I hated kids TV so just bought loads of really good films - Beatrix Potter, 5 Children & It, Narnia, Harry Potter, Tom's Midnight Garden, Secret Garden etc - she doesn't read much due to the dyslexia but knows all the children's classics through films.

The psychologist saved my sanity and stopped me feeling like the worst parent ever.

Hi OP

I think it sounds like a normal 2.5 YO. Of course not all toddlers are this way and some are actually "well behaved" I went through this with all 3 of mine. They never listened or cared about consequences, used to hit everyone at any inconvenience.. etc. I used to think I make abnormal children as all of my friends children and children's friends seemed so much better behaved. But I can say it sounds like it's just an age thing. All of mine got over it by age 4 latest. And are now so lovely and polite, just amazing little humans.

Maybe it's just a case of waiting it out? But if it makes you relax a little maybe a session or two wouldn't hurt? There's nothing to loose

I'm sure things will improve either way x

1.stop trying to "explain" things to 2.5 year old. They do not have the comprehension.

1. Even if she has great language, when she's upset/having tantrums, use much shorter sentences.
2. You need to be consistent. Pick an approach at bedtime & stick religiously to it so your DD knows exactly what's coming

She sounds overtired. Try an earlier bedtime and at this age it needs to be a long build up. Go up at 5.45, allow 30 mins for a nice bath etc. Allow a lot of time for calm, quiet stories in bed. If she's not happy with you leaving the room yet try building up to that more gradually to allow her to get used to change.

My therapist is also qualified in child psychology

This is meaningless - anyone can call themselves a psychologist. Literally, anyone. There is no such qualification as a "child psychologist."

You've clearly stated here it's your approach that is failing. You seem to have a normal child reacting normally to poor approaches at discipline.

Follow through on what you say, and if you can't work as a team with your partner, don't. Each of you can take on different issues.

Whatever you do, do not spend ages explaining consequences/behaviour to a toddler. Even an angry 7yo won’t take in a full on ‘well how do you think X felt, we really mustn’t hit because Y etc etc’ explanation because their emotions are too heightened to really hear it.

Simple, positive language, e.g. ‘gentle hands’ rather than ‘no hitting’ said in a calm but steely voice, and moving said hands physically yourself if needed to assert the point. Immediate, natural consequences only, again without complex language ‘We share nicely. X is having his toy first’ and toy handed straight back to whomever it was snatched from.

We're making progress with bedtime but the hitting is escalating. We got a sticker chart and she gets one to being kind. They get taken away when she's unkind. She doesn't care whatsoever. She knows the difference. Is totally clear on what's kind and what's unkind but does it anyway. I'm at my wit's end.

Your expectations for a 2.5 year old are way too high. They are impulsive, they have only just started developing empathy.
They might know something was "not kind" but still have no clue why they did it, how to not do it again and why you are so cross about it. Those skills take a long time to develop. You taking a sticker away is just not a logical consequence, they are not going to connect it to their impulsive action 5 minutes ago.
Parenting a very overtired toddler is very, very tough. If you can't get a nap or decent down time ti happen during the day then the hours after 5pm need to be as minimally demanding on them as possible. They are at the end of their resources, and so are you.
Can you switch bath to morning? Then it's two less big transitions and a lot less demands. Can you have everything ready in one room to do pyjamas, teeth, hair, story in one safe space.?

YANBU to take her because it sounds like some clear parenting support from a specialist who has observed you (rather than the opinion of every random person on MN/in your family) would be really helpful.

I don't think there is anything "wrong" with her though. I won't give advice because it will just be one more conflicting opinion

Try the 'how to talk' book. The process they suggest in that helps you as an adult calm down...

"I can see you're angry and it must be very frustrating when you want to draw and I've said no, but the problem is that when you scrawl on the wall with the toilet brush it makes me upset and the wall messy (ffs!) How can we solve the problem, let's see, should we get a dragon to lick the wall clean?" Etc etc.

It's not the case of her being difficult because she's overtired. She'll hit within an hour of waking up. There is no difference to her behaviour if she naps or doesn't.

I've got to be honest I think that book and most of the gentle parenting techniques do fuck all. We explain why. I couldn't care less about her making a mess and whatever else she does but I can't let her hit her sister and I can't constantly be moving her out of her reach.

My DS2 went through a hitting phase at this age. I found it so stressful. I tried so hard to get him to stop and nothing worked! It went on for months, and then suddenly he just stopped. He was such a wilful determined toddler, and not a great sleeper either, but now he's 14yo and he's great - kind, caring, bright, happy, works hard at school. Hang in there OP.

Some kids are just wired differently and it’s bloomin hard then layer on lost sleep no wonder your struggling as your a human not a robot. Please “be kind to yourself” to start with, find ways to carve 20-30mins for yourself out to recharge, if your calmer your have more patience with your DD. Hitting gets a reaction at the moment so regardless if it’s positive or negative it gets a reaction from you for your DD, ignoring it or grey rock it or very neutral firm tone of NO removes the power from her getting that emotional reaction from you ~ then move on to redirect her attention. Consistently is key she’s little and terrible twos are hard but lots of positive praise for behaviours you like. Behaviour is very much a form of communication when you don’t have the words which is why young kids are so physical.

Be kind /unkind is a bad message because it labels her, not the behaviour. This is internalised by children and they either accept it and play up to it ("I am unkind") or rebel against the whole system ("I don't care about any of this it's stupid").

Always label the behaviour not your child. It is fundamentally important for their sense of self. "Rosie is a girl who sometimes makes mistakes and does things that are not kind" is enormously different psychologically from "Rosie is unkind".

If you want to use a sticker chart just focus on the positives. You don't unearn something you already earnt. That's unfair. She actually did that positive bit of behaviour to earn that sticker, you can't then erase it because she did something unsuccessful later. She just doesn't earn the available sticker for that activity.

You need to be more specific about what you want to see. "I used kind hands with my sister", "I was helpful with my bedtime routine" "I tried to eat my dinner" whatever it might be. Note each target is behavioural, not about her as a person.

It might sound like namby pamby psychology, but trust me, when kids internalise that they are bad, disappointing or unkind - not that they sometimes do bad things, disappointing things or unkind things, like everyone - you really are storing up a lifetime of low self esteem, depression or rebellion, depending on how their psyche reacts to that internalized message.

Another comment saying it's normal, not sure if that's making you feel better or not?

Hitting and tantrums and making a mess are all normal and my DD 2.5 is the same, but I would say on the days where she's doing these things more I have to try harder with empathising and connecting with her. And I'm not perfect FYI, but when I make mistakes like not being very nice to her or shouting, I will apologise to her. Or if she gets upset because I've, I don't know, picked up her toothbrush but she wanted to be the one to pick it up. I've apologised then too! She knows I care about her feelings and what she wants and I can see in her behaviour she is learning the same from me.

Gentle parenting doesn't stop your child being the developmental age they are, you need to focus on the things you can change - your expectations, your responses and this will improve the undesirable behaviour.

I do recommend reading a gentle parenting book, I'd recommend audio book, personally I find that format easier as there's always something to do and I'd recommend Sarah Ockwell Smith. Do yourself a favour and try it because it sounds like you're having a really tough time, you can turn this around and things can be better than they are.

I'm not saying she's unkind I am saying hitting is unkind. She came up with what is kind (stroking hugging and kissing) and what's unkind (hitting kicking biting). So she knows I'm not saying she's bad, but her behaviour is. I don't think I can just ignore it and honestly she couldn't have more of my attention if she tried. On my best day I know she is just frustrated and can't help it l, on others I feel so sad and angry that I'm raising a child who is actually horrible to others a lot of the time on purpose.

OK I won't give advice but I will recommend a resource. A lot of gentle parenting approaches won't work yet because she's too little. This is evidence based and not harsh:

https://www.coursera.org/learn/everyday-parenting/home/welcome

Of course she can't hit her sister btw.

I had a hitter. He was jealous of his brother.

When hitting happened he got a sharp "No, we don't hit" and then ignored, whilst the victim got a heap of attention - cuddles, Sat on my knee, etc

Once he realizes that when he hit baby Danny, he got ignored whilst baby Danny got loads of extra attention, he soon stopped.

It does help to hear others saying it's a phase and I'll do the course, also I have read good inside and the book you wish your parents read plus how to talk. I'm really trying. I've also done parenting courses.