To take my toddler to a psychologist

[Whyisitsosohard]

I acknowledge my 2.5 YO is what most MN users would consider naughty but everyone I speak to in real life says her behaviour is typical for a toddler. My biggest concerns are her hitting (me, her sister, the pets) and bedtime refusal.

She doesn't nap and is exhausted by 7 but she shouts and screams every time we try and leave the room. We've had the same routine since birth. Invariably I lose my temper after 12 hours of being shouted no at.

We struggle to implement consequences because there's nothing she cares about us taking away (tv, toys etc). We explain every time why hitting is wrong or why she needs sleep. Her communication is excellent so I don't think that's what's frustrating her. We praise good behaviour all the time so it's not as if we're always telling her off.

Nothing has changed recently and nursery haven't said they have any specific issues but always refer to her as headstrong, spirited etc so I'm sure they also find her a PITA at times. I want her to grow up to be a kind person but I'm scared she's walking all over us.

My therapist is also qualified in child psychology and has offered a joint session. Aibu to accept?

That was about the age we implemented a marble jar. We day with DS and Alex him what he thought were nice ways to behave/good things for people to do, he came up with being helpful, using listening ears, having kind hands etc (lots of nursery language) we then suggested a few getting dressed nicely for bed, brushing teeth n nicely with mummy/daddy etc since have dropped off been added over the years depending on behavioural changes. He gets marbles for good behaviours, now it's things like getting himself dressed for school etc. When the jar is full he gets a small treat, it might be a book, or a ne colour of.playdough or a hot wheels car. This generally happens about once a month. He can also lose marbles but after a few times the reminder that if a behaviour continues he will lose marbles , is enough. The big jar sits on top of his wardrobe in his bedroom so it's a very visual reminder. He will actually come to me when I'm cleaning/cooking etc and say mummy is there anything I can do to be helpful?
He is a very headstrong child

And is sister younger or older?

That is a late dinner and 3.5 hours between food. A 6pm dinner means she needs 1.5 to 2 hours really to digest to not impact on sleep. Are you taking her straight up after food

how long is she at nursery

My therapist is also qualified in child psychology

What qualification? Do they have a
doctorate in educational psychology or did they do a psychology degree?

Talking to someone else might give you a different perspective on this, I guess.

If you aren’t successful at the 1pm nap remove it. Bring the snack foward to 1:30 then at 4:40/5 dinner. Start bedtime at 6:30 so when she hits the exhausted 7 she is settled. Currently she must be getting over tired and over hungry then wanting to sleep when full.

We used to do dinner at 5 but she said she wasn't hungry. We do aim for 5.30 but it's often 6 by the time she's finished. We then do bath around 6.15 and stories at 6.45. Nursery is 3 days a week and she goes between 830 and 430. Sister is younger.

Moving snack time forward might help. Does she eat at nursery or come home and eat
is there a difference on nursery and home days does she nap there

over tired and over hungry are the biggest triggers for things (for everyone) and minimising those happening is always a good first step

Thought sister might be younger. Jealousy at the baby is also likely to be part of this subconsciously.

This is all completely normal but tiring

On nursery days she'll occasionally nap but mostly because the other kids do. Often she'll just lie down and rest apparently. She's feral when she gets home. Totally exhausted so I'm willing to let most bad behaviour go.

When she's home all day she is also so tired by evening but honestly her behaviour is bad irrespective of whether she's napped or not or eaten well or not.

Your psychologist might see what your parenting style is like if you attend together, and so might be able to give some pointers, so it might be helpful.

she is a long time at nursery for a young age
and there is the sibling rivalry
you need some quiet time for her

My now 14 year old was a defiant, difficult, hard work toddler, an overwhelmed and unpredictable pre-schooler, then an emotionally disregulated school child and everyone- including health professionals told me it was 'normal'.

My sense was always that it was beyond the realms of normal but I swallowed it down, dealt with everything myself until aged 12 things got catastrophic and in the last two years she has been diagnosed as ADHD combined type with PDA (Pathological Demand Avoidance ) as a profile component (Psychiatrist reluctance to use it as a full diagnosis ). The kicker has been that every assessment I've / she's had on this- they have all asked detailed questions about her early years and wonder why I didn't push for anything sooner . I have always known something was off. I'm in my own therapy now dealing with all of that.

My point is, if you feel in your gut that she shows behaviour that is very very demanding, struggles to calm down, is emotionally disregulated, battles with you over anything and everything, won't settle easily, has sensory issues- do look into it. Yes lots of children have developmental issues and they iron themselves out after a phase of it but get clued up, see what help there is available, really importantly- look after yourself.

Just a small thought on the communication side. My eldest was also very articulate early, and around about the age yours is I was forced to realise that we'd developed a habit of explaining things to her in too much detail. She'd learnt to respond to us in ways that made us think she understood but actually we needed to simplify our messages a lot if we wanted her to do as we asked. Particularly around naughty behaviour.

You've kept the routine the same despite having a younger baby? Why? Your DD probably needs to spend more quality time it you, you've shaken her world up by having another baby.

Two year olds are not bad, their behaviour is a way of communicating with you.

What do you suggest I do differently now she has a younger sibling? Genuinely interested. She has a lot of 1-1 time on the 3 days she's with me and her dad. And the day she's with her grandparents it's even more dedicated time without her sister.

I do bath and bed for her every night. I take her on outings just the 2 of us every day. She'll walk the dog with me. She and I go to soft play without her sister. Same for swim lessons. Playdates. Of course she's jealous but I honestly don't see how I could carve out more time for her. She is my shadow and comes with me everywhere.

The day at nursery is long but she really likes it. She even asks to go at the weekend. She loves her friends, doing crafts, playing outside. My psychologist actually suggested more time at nursery because she has such a high need for stimulation.

she needs down time
quiet time

If she no longer naps but is exhausted by 7.30, have you tried just putting her to bed at 6.30?

I mean this sooooo gently, because I know how hard it is, but you sound a bit at the end of your rope and clutching at a professional finding some issue with your child that will help fix this. You’ve had good advice here. Also I think a better use of your therapist is exploring the anger towards her that you feel in the face of all the nos. What does it trigger in you for example? I have felt rage about similar things and I think it touches deep down feelings of humiliation at being disrespected, not listened to at times earlier in my life.

Your child is doing absolutely normal things which are very challenging as a parent. And you have a baby too! It’s horrific at that stage! Not for everyone, but for many. I wonder what you think of the concepts here in this clip, I think they are really helpful and you could explore them in therapy. In meantime, as much practical help as you can get. Call in all the troops and the life hacks you can like cleaners etc to make practical life easier so you can be more understanding of your wee one when you’re in better shape.

We've tried an early bed time but shes never asleep before 730 so its just longer for her to protest. I am at the end of my rope because I really want to be a good parent and I try so hard to be patient and make sure she feels safe and loved.

It's hard when you're then met with shouting, hitting and whinging. I know she's struggling with normal emotions and I'm not expecting a silver bullet. I just want to see how I can improve as a parents so she's less angry and upset.

I've read how to talk and we do give choices as much as possible but a lot of the other concepts are just too advanced for her.

You said nothing has changerd recently but then say in another post the baby is 6 months old. A new baby is a huge life adjustment to a toddler only 6 months ago. You have the terrible twos plus jealousy combined. Most of what you describe is classic attention seeking - in a negative way - and will eventually calm down. My middle one used to try and get you to sing him to sleep every night until one night I realised he was actually staying awake longer because I was sitting outside singing twinkle twinkle in repeat. I told him we would do one story and one song a night and stick to it. For 3 nights he would call me repeatedly for more singing and then he realised I wouldn’t come back for that and the habit was broken. You need to set an understandable boundary and stick to it.

As for dinner time if she eats lunch at 11.30 then dinner a 5 is fine. She can’t read a clock and says she isn’t hungry you say but if you put it down she will eat it. Try even going 10 mins easily for 3 days and you’ve moved it without her noticing. You are the parent and you make the decisions.

Sounds very similar to one of my kids at that age. We were pretty desperate for strategies too.

In the end every time he kicked off or did something 'naughty/bad' I would literally pick him up and remove him from the situation and say 'if you're not going to play nicely/be nice/be kind then you're not allowed to play'.

Then I'd put him down in a different room, hallway or whatever, just away from wherever he had been. If he then kicked off further I'd just sit down and hold him on my lap while he kicked/screamed/thrashed/bit etc and just kept repeating 'if you are not going to be kind... Blah blah' all in a really monotone and boring voice until he stopped fighting.

Initially I was doing it CONSTANTLY all bloody day, after a few days though it seemed to click and actually ended up making a huge difference.

Don't get me wrong, he's only 3.5 now and still intermittently thumps his brother or does something completely outrageous... But the difference was huge.

Good luck with whatever you end up trying!!

Over tired can lead to all of that and frustration that she can’t do what she wants to do. The anger and emotions are normal development and it maybe you cannot stop the overtired until she gets older amd more resilient - they are long days

if she is asleep then at 7:30 why not have dinner at 5 then some quiet winding downtime bath at 6:45 and stories at 7:15

Like pps I also think she sounds a bit normal. You have to roll with it a bit. we genuinely thought our DD had pathological demand aversion and now she is 6 it is all melting away.

My dd was the same with hitting at that age. She was VERY difficult generally at two and a half. Even my sisters who have loads of older kids were 😮 at some of her antics. She’s now four and positively angelic - I soak up all that praise. 🤣

Are you putting her to bed early enough? I found DD went to sleep very easily at 6-6.30 but if she was awake til 7 it was a nightmare. I was very strict on early bedtime as I knew the consequences if I wasn’t. Friends and family would often say “don’t leave so early” “ah let her stay up a bit later”. Hard no!

A 2.5yo isn't going to benefit from a therapy session. It'll be more for your benefit than hers.