To be devastated I didn't get the job

[Ronalling]

I'll give a little context, I started at the company I'm at in 2021 (new company so no one is from before 2019, hardly anyone before 2021). I work in the entertainment/creative industries, I don't want to say exact title as could be outing with the other info, but think of the performing arts.
The company are restructuring due to faster than expected growth and wanting to focus on a different market, a new role was made, advertised only internally. I interviewed in June/July, we were told we would hear nearer the time and other things had to be sorted first. It is a middle management role, sort of joining the creative side with the company as a whole, lots of time spent on meetings and admin and making sure others are doing their jobs but still some creative input and studio time. The internal job advert was vague, no time of experience noted, just you had to already be in a certain role. I'm 35, have been doing that job at other companies for 10 years, then for as long as anyone else at this company. I have a degree that is related too.
On Thursday it was announced that a 24/25 year old, who only got the job that was required experience wise last summer, has the job and has known since August!! She is very likable and has climbed the ranks in this company, one of the originals etc. In her first few months she caused waves due to the success of one of her pieces of work. All the normal things were said, she is a breath of fresh air, brings a new level of creativity etc. Honestly I didn't get the hype, she is just very likable and dare I say pretty privilege. After this she was given the opportunity to work with other teams and none of the rest of us were. It has basically gone from me being her boss in 2021, being equals in 2022, to her being my boss now!! They are also paying for her management course (though I think they were going to do this for whoever got it).
I'm so frustrated, I don't understand what she has that I don't, she is 10 years younger, no degree, barely any experience and will be making £80,000+ a year which is substantially more than me!!
It is also unlikely she will leave the job anytime soon and there are no other obvious progression paths at this company so basically I will have to leave if I want to progress.
I guess AIBU to be upset and think it is really unfair that someone who is so much less experienced/qualified has gotten the job over me?? Should I complain to someone??

That is also a horrible and unnecessary comment!

Promotion is not about age and experience, it's are about talent. She sounds like she's talented and your employers recognise this.

I was her once. I was called a 'bit of a kid', but I worked miracles in my job, so people stopped going on about me being a head of service in local government at the age of 24. Support her, she could take you with her.

I also recall a guy going on about a colleague, let's call him Dave, who joined a co through the same grad scheme as him. He didn't think Dave was great, but the co did. Dave is now the CEO of that multi national co earning millions in salary plus millions in bonuses every year. He was clearly talent.

I'm so sorry this has happened to you. It's devastating. If I were you, I'd be looking elsewhere. This organisation doesn't value you. They're blindsided by the eye-lash fluttering, ass kissing johnny come lately, and you deserve better.

I went for an interview 3 years ago. Far the best qualified candidate in terms of experience and qualifications, and I know I did a decent interview. Had also been carrying out the majority of the role for 10/11 months and it had gone well. Manager came into the office post-interviews raving about how good everyone had been and how hard the decision had been. When I asked for feedback, I got my answers to the questions recited back to me.

It turned out that the job went to someone half my age, with a fraction of my qualifications, and a fraction of my experience, who had only been in the organisation for a wet weekend, but malleable! This totally unimpressive, uninspiring individual had already been promoted by 3 grades within months, but has now been promoted by a further 3 grades in less than 3 years! Am I bitter, am I fuck!

However, I had 2 things go against me. One, I expressed my opinions, when the expectation was that I should put up and shut up. I will never do that. Two, I was late 50s, and the general recruitment situation showed that I was firmly in the 'too old' category. There is potentially a three, which is that I was massively more qualified educationally and in experience, than the twat manager doing the recruiting. Her loss.

Vote with your feet. I would have, if I hadn't been too old to be considered worth of employment!

Promotion is not about talent at all - it's about your face fitting.

I recall a mediocre management consultant where I worked in what was a big five consultancy back in the day.

She was crap as a management consultant, but as her interview notes from one of the partners said, "she looks like a Vogue model" - so they shoved her into Marketing instead...

I've been in my role less time than a colleague in the same role. I am confident that if a promotion came up (unlikely at this stage, but possibly in the future), she definitely wouldn't get it, and I would stand a reasonable chance, although not guaranteed.

Time in the role is less important than what you have brought to the role in the time you've been there. You've talked about her success - but you have said nothing about yours.

Also you are minimising the fact that she has been at that company longer, it sounds like two years longer. That's not irrelevant either.

What you can't do is change the situation. What you might need to do, for your own sake, is change your attitude towards it. Your resentment is clear. If you let that show, then you'll never get ahead.

Take this as a push to excel in your role so the next time it will be you

Time in the role is ABSOLUTELY no indicator for promotion. Neither is having a relevant degree

In fact longevity can make staff stale and complacent and a degree doesn't help in the arts imo

Your employer doesn't want you in a senior role

Of course, you'll organise a meeting for detailed feedback, but you might not get the full truth, which is a shame as you need to know where you've gone off kilter to help in your next job

You'll obviously have to leave where you are now and your employer will know that

It’s frustrating, OP. But you may have dodged a bullet. The management side of this job might be horrendous and not worth it.

I applied for a promotion last year. It went to another colleague. I’ve seen him do the job and I know I wouldn’t have enjoyed it. I wouldn’t have been “naturally” good at it, but I’m diligent and would have worked hard to make it work. I’m glad I don’t have the responsibility, though. I see how stressed he is by that aspect of the job. If the company you work for is good in other ways, I’d carry on there till new openings.

I get how you feel OP, but it just sounds like the other candidate was a better fit. Nothing wrong with asking for feedback after a knockback though, to help you decide how to proceed.

The OP has only been there since 2021. The younger colleague since 2022. Why are people making out that she’s a dinosaur? She has 10 years experience and formal qualifications. It’s frustrating, we can at least acknowledge that.

@Ronalling as others have said, sometimes it's just the face that fits. I'd just lay low and keep an eye out externally for ops. It may be a blessing in disguise in terms of work but they would have known you'd be annoyed yet still went with it.

This happened to me, I was extremely experienced but our team leader role came up as a vacancy and went to a quiet newbie, Oxbridge educated, 1st class degree. My then boss went on sick that day and emailed the outcome to me as couldnt face me. TBH she was right for the role in many ways as fit the company mould and people were in awe of her academics but I couldn't bear the humiliation and left for a much better role as soon as I could.

My advice, you aren't valued here, look elsewhere

I just came to say this - you’re potential blind to what they were looking for as you’ve been in the industry so long.

she can see something, she may have even brought some exception ideas to interview which made her the better candidate.

I would ask for feedback though, in a less emotional way.

Obviously they have decided this is the person they want. Quite possibly the wrong choice was made and they were hoodwinked by charm, attractiveness and ability to talk the talk. Which doesn't always mean ability to do the job. But under the circumstances I would leave. I certainly wouldn't tolerate having this inexperienced person as my boss.

It's perfectly reasonable to be privately upset, but you can't put in an actual complaint about someone else's decision/opinion. Unless there's some obvious conflict of interests, like she's related to/sleeping with the big boss etc, and even then a formal complaint would probably be counter productive.

If she's had a big success already within the company, in only a couple of years, they probably just recognise that she's likely to have further successes in the future.

Having a degree becomes meaningless as soon as you start the job, and tbh you sound quite condescending about the fact that you don’t have a degree.

My DS works in the creative industry, and he says that the people with degrees actually take longer to progress because those without are already building contacts and gaining experience and so are often already established by the time those doing their degree actually set foot in the industry.

`plus,job type aside, it’s not just about what experience someone has. A decent employer will employ based on someone’s job application, how their cv looks, how they interview at the time. You can have all the experience in the world but if you botch the interview then you likely won’t get the job

That she doesn’t have a degree (left it too long to edit the post).

Also, for those saying the OP should leave, should look for a better job, that she isn’t valued, nobody can possibly know that. It’s entirely possible that this other person is in fact the better person for the job

It’s worth noting that the creative industry has changed significantly since COVID, and this other candidate has likely grown with those changes in light of the fact she’s so young, and is more likely to take change on board than someone who has been in the industry for years prior to change and who thinks that qualification somehow trumps ability.

I really understand. I've had similar experiences (although in a different industry). I've watched people take on a role I've wanted, and seen them be utterly dreadful at it, while I've been expected to prop them up!

It feels unfair - and in many (though probably not all) cases, it often is. Other people often sayi things like 'you're just jealous ' but we'll, of course! Working hard and feeling like you've put time and effort into what you do, then watching someone else get what you want when it seems like they just got a bit lucky, does make people feel like that!

I appreciate your industry may be difficult to move to other employers, but I've found in mine, the only way to progress is to move on elsewhere once that sort of thing starts happening.

Have you produced any work that is comparable? You said she did early on- they've obviously taken that into account?

Is it worth meeting with someone to discuss why you didn't get the job? Is there anything glaring? Or perhaps bring up in an appraisal. Focus now on getting the promotion next time?

When I have been in a role where my boss doesn't believe in me, doesn't support me and doesn't put me forward then I leave because ultimately I know whatever I do will never be good enough in that situation.

I suggest you do the same.

It might be that you do your job very well and they don't want to lose that.

Definitely this!

It's something that has taken me far too long to figure out but I'm there now. I was brought up to think hard work was what got you places. It's been a hard lesson to learn that it's not always the case.

I've been that 25 year old, I remember clearly a time when I got a management job that a woman who had been there years thought she should have got. She couldn't understand it but while she knew the business inside out she wasn't strong when it came to making tough decisions. I'm currently managing my previous boss. I've also been in situations the other way round where younger people were promoted ahead of me.

You don't know what went on behind the scenes and it does sound like she's talented. Your comment about a 25 year old earning 80k just reeks of jealousy. As you get older you will find younger people above you in organisations becomes more common.

That said, they should have had the decency to tell you sooner. If you want to stay in this organisation put your game face on, congratulate her and ask for feedback from your interview/on your performance and advice on how you can continue to progress your career.

I don’t think experience matters all that much in some roles, sometimes it’s about talent/suitability. Sound like she is right for this role and fair play to her! But, I have experience of companies like this and sometimes some bizarre decisions are made as to who progresses and when!

Hi @Ronalling your best bet is to ask for comprehensive feedback from the interview process. They should be able to give you precise scoring and notes to clearly confirm how the final ranking was made.

I have been that 24 year old and the older more experienced colleagues made my life miserable by complaining and digging their heels in. I resigned but the company weren’t about to let me leave so I applied for an internal transfer and continued to climb the ladder until I am now the director of that department.

Ask for the feedback, act of it and please don’t compare yourself to the successful candidate but make your own destiny.