To complain about teacher's behaviour

[Ilovechocolate87]

Last night after tea, DD (6) said to younger DD (2) 'Don't you dare do that' (touch her food) in a menacing voice.It isn't something we would say, as I think it's a nasty way to speak to someone, so i asked her where she got it from, to which she replied that her teacher had shouted at a boy in her class (year 1) 'don't you dare interuppt me when I'm talking' and re-inacted it in a thunderous sort of voice.

If she was telling me the teacher was saying such things to her I would be in no doubt to complain, as its clearly threatening behaviour, but as it wasn't at her (and she confirms she has never shouted at her) I'm on the fence whether to say anything or not about it .I've re-iterated to DD not to speak to her little sister like that, explaining that even if the teacher did it, it is still wrong.She told me when I asked that it doesn't scare her when the teacher shouts (she has very sensitive hearing and is often scared if we shout at home) but i'm not really liking that she is seeing someone who should be a professional and a role model behaving in that way towards any child.

As an entirely casual onlooker, I noticed comments earlier that “hurt people are just trying to hurt people to make themselves feel better”. Yet, this is exactly what some of these exasperated posters are trying to say to OP, pointing out - in their opinion - that the OP is projecting/ employing double standards. But apparently the feedback is the problem…
And when teachers are trying to provide perspective by telling stories on this thread of the damage done to their mental health over the endless casual or unproven complaints they endure, the same people complaining about meanness have made pointed, spiteful and generalised comments in return towards teachers about their capacity, ability and motivation. Did irony just come here and straight up die?
And no, I am not a school teacher, never have been, never aspired to be, never gonna be. The principal reason because I am not a masochist. Having spent time I will not get back around some awful parents on the school run, I wish to limit my dealings with people who think they understand teaching merely because they once went to school. You see the evidence in WhatsApp groups and at pickup time that some parents appear to have never left, psychologically. It’s not fair to punish teachers teaching your kids now for whoever hurt you 20 years ago.
Have I had cause to speak to school about a concern, ever? Yes. Did I need to seek others’ opinion on it to decide if my concern was valid? No. If things are not right or problematic in a school or classroom, it’s apparent pretty clearly and quickly. if something is important enough to be raised, you know without running a poll past strangers. Equally, not every little thing that pisses you off about a school community of 100s of people needs to become a report or complain about it. Honestly, you’ll never get anything done. Before I go stir a hornets nest, how certain am I? Did I see it for myself? If I didn’t, where’s my evidence? If I don’t have any, how big of an issue could this be? Is there a law or a policy to give me some guidance? Your post does not come anywhere close to meeting my criteria on any of those grounds. There are so few things in life that don’t live in the grey, OP, but this really is one of them.
OP, you seem a bit lost. You have shared some things on here that must make you feel very vulnerable. You’ve made some mistakes youre ashamed of, that you are courageous enough to have owned and you will doubtless make many more in your life. What I would have expected to see on that basis is some self reflection and a coming to realisation of what many people on here have tried to reflect back to you, I think you've become entrenched in your position and lost the most important thing about owning mistakes - the ability to learn from them and gain some perspective. There’s also no point in asking for other people‘s opinion if you aren’t willing to truly look at a problem from another position.
You are not only being unreasonable but veering into the territory of irrational. I’d put this down and put some gentle effort into figuring out what’s going on with you.

The OP has made a big song and dance about how she is a great parent

Errm, not really?! I've just defended myself to those who are trying to make me sound like a bad one!

parents who don't want to parent and think its all the schools job and then seek to blame the school when their child doesn't behave correctly.

None of this is related to my child not behaving 'correctly" at school.

The reality here is that kids copy how others behavior whether that be other kids misbehaving or how adults behave. They have to learn what is acceptable and appropriate and what is not

Yes exactly, she was copying the teachers aggressive behaviours,which were not appropriate.Just the same as if she copied mine.

So, you see, you can put me and the teacher in the same bracket 'bad teacher/bad parent' for that, but can't say that me shouting isn't OK yet of course its fine for the teacher to do so. * *

Once again, just because 'statistics show its more likely that someone who harms animals harms children' does not mean EVERY person who hurts an animal would hurt a child.Please try and get that into your head!

Same as statistics show that those who were sexually abused as child are more likely to sexually abuse children themselves, or those who grew up in homes with DV are more likely to be perpetrators of it....but OF COURSE many won't be either!!

Not saying that animals deserve to be abused OF COURSE they don't! But you cannot compare it to child abuse, hence why the law is different in responding to each circumstance.

And to try and say I've failed as a parent because of it is below the belt and probably the cruelest comment on this whole thread (which is pretty full of them)...I have not failed at it whatsoever.....I am a wonderful parent in many ways.
Yes I get annoyed at my child sometimes and raise my voice (never knew that would be classed as such a heinous crime!) many other parents on this thread post every day about similar struggles with that.

I can only assume that your vitriol towards my parenting comes from your mis-assumption that all animal abusers are child abusers, and your dislike of me wanting to complain about a teacher.

I am genuinely an incredibly invested, loving, devoted, responsive parent 99.9% of the time, and everyone who actually KNOWS me IRL would say that too (yes, even the school!)

I am working on my faults and flaws and trying to find ways to manage my anger issues (which are related mainly to hormonal problems)

I would love to be like the posters who have never shouted at their children, can easily remain calm etc....maybe one day I'll be more like them, but whilst i am not there yet, I am certainly not a failure as a parent either.

Read the posts please ...nowhere have I said its 'perfectly fine' for me to shout at her.Because it isn't! But then neither should the teacher! But apparently that's ok?!

It isnt ideal to shout at your kids but it is fine.

It is also fine for a teacher to say or even shout "dont you dare" It really isn't a big deal at all. If is even ok for your dd1 to say this to dd2 about touching her food if she was a little older than 2.

You have blown the meaning of those words out of all proportion.

@Volpini yes I have made mistakes.Yes I have previously shared them on here, (which i now really fucking regret tbh, and WILL not be doing again) i was at the time hoping for support with my mistakes, yet here they are all being thrown back in my face years later (even though I HAVE self reflected and learnt from them.....DH and I have worked on our relationship, I no longer harm any animals, and I am in the ongoing process of bettering myself as a parent)

I hold myself to account for shouting at my child and expect my husband to do so aswell.And so I expect the teacher to do the same.
Neither she nor I should be speaking to children in an aggressive or unkind way.
If my DD had gone into school and told the teacher I had done so with her at home, I would expect them to be having a word with me about that too.
I appreciate it works both ways.

I might spend alot of time complaining, I might be 'that' parent, but I'm not fussed about being in the teachers pockets, popular or liked by them, I'm only fussed that their behaviour is professional and caring towards my little girl.

However, I also understand that there is an element of 'needing to pick battles' in some instances, and as this was not something said directly to my child, that's why I came here asking for seemingly simple advice around whether this was a battle to 'pick or not to pick' (boy do I regret it now!)

I won't agree that the teacher was not wrong in doing what she did, but that was not what the post was asking, it was asking if I should complain about it, to which I have been told loud and clear I should not, which is fine, but the unkindness laced through the replies is not.

Thanks @Repurposing for all the support...I have said all i can to defend myself and explain, but even though i'm not in denial about my own mistakes and flaws, some people will clearly never be convinced that I am not all the awful things I've been called on this thread, and like you say it's only going to make me feel worse and worse reading it all, plus the more I respond the more active this thread will remain.

Time to all move on to bullying the next unsuspecting poster now please!!

I am leaving this thread and deleting my account now, to escape the unnecessary nastiness which seems so rife on here, and focus on parenting my lovely children in the real world, which most of the time I do pretty bloody well.
I don't need an online forum trying to tell me otherwise.

Those who say that people are bullying the OP need to look up what bullying is.

Pointing out a differing opinion to the OP is not bullying. People are getting heated because of his ludicrous it is. The OP wants forgiveness for hitting her cat, she admits she shouts and scares her child and has made bad decisions because she is human… yet she is unable to consider that perhaps this teacher, on this occasion, spoke more harshly than normal because said child had pushed her buttons one too many times.

If the OPs DD commented on this being out of character for the teacher, or at least she’s never mentioned it before, then why can’t the OP use a bit of common sense and think that perhaps the teacher has had a spectacularly stressful day.
No children were harmed, nor did she swear.

You want forgiveness for your bad choices OP? How about showing a bit of compassion to the teacher, who is human too.

OP, don't you see how hypocritical it is to talk of feeling bullied and being treated unkindly, when that is exactly how the teacher will feel if you complain to her boss for something so incredibly routine and trivial?

If my child came home saying their teacher had shouted 'don't you dare interrupt me' I would tell them off all over again - 'quite right, you mustn't interrupt your teacher.'

I wouldn't be complaining to the head about the word choice, hoping to get her into trouble, thrilled that she'd be second-guessing everything she says from now on, showing my child that the teacher was wrong.

Behaviour in schools is a hundred times worse than it has ever been, and this nonsense is the reason why - kids who think they are untouchable, who laugh at the idea of being on the receiving end of any sort of sanction, who don't respect teachers because their parents don't either.

Have to agree with you

Would love to see op banging on about professionalism after a few years of managing thirty six year olds.. Guaranteed a quarter of them are feral, pushing boundaries, answering back, interrupting and talking to others, not listening, disrupting teaching and learning. Some of them will, at times, no doubt physically hurt others, disobey rules, throw objects, run out the room.

But teachers can't raise their voice because.. Professionalism 🙄

Wtf.

If it routine and trivial the teachers boss will recognise it as such - where’s the bullying?

You really think someone who will complain about something this petty will stop and one complaint though? She even implies as much in her posts. That constant picking can soon fall into the bullying and harrassment bracket.

The voice of sanity. I have a friend who retired as a reception class teacher a few years ago. Her first few years of teaching were on her own in the classroom with no TAs, as was usual until the late nineties. She once told me that she would rather have a class of thirty five children with no TA from thirty years ago than a class of thirty of today’s children with at least one TA as the behaviour of many children has deteriorated so much in that time.

The teacher didn’t shout at her though did she. She said “don’t you dare” to another a child. A child you don’t know. You’ve assumed she shouted. You’ve assumed the context was threatening. Has it occurred to you it was said in jest?

You have leaped to massive conclusions based on the context of you as a parent.

They will yes but do you know how soul destroying it is for teachers to receive unfounded complaints?

A really important factor in the question of 'should I complain?' is 'what do I hope to achieve if I complain?' or simply what is the goal of the complaint and how likely is it to be successful and how important is the complaint?

I really can't get past the fact that the OP simply doesn't like the teacher and she saw it as an opportunity to put the boot in. It's pretty obvious it wasn't that important and it's fairly unlikely to succeed.

It is so depressing.

Learning when to complain and when not to complain is really important.

This thread is utterly insane. I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone with such a lack of any type of self reflection? Like, when presented with things they’ve done wrong there’s a million excuses and cries about how it doesn’t make them a bad person but absolutely zero ability to apply that to the teacher. I can’t believe people make it to adulthood with this absence of emotional maturity.

„yes I have made mistakes.Yes I have previously shared them on here, (which i now really fucking regret tbh, and WILL not be doing again) i was at the time hoping for support with my mistakes, „

my reply to you above was supportive. I have not thrown what you said back in your face. I don’t even reference what you have said or what those mistakes have been. Nor have I gone back and read any old posts by you. I mention them only because you have talked about those things so much across this thread.

„yet here they are all being thrown back in my face years later (even though I HAVE self reflected and learnt from them.....“

i meant specifically in relation to this thread and how you hold others to account. Sorry if that was not clear, but again, I am not responsible for what others have said only what I have said and what I have ACTUALLY said and I have very specifically attempted to do what you asked and giving you my take.

I hold myself to account for shouting at my child …And so I expect the teacher to do the same.
Neither she nor I should be speaking to children in an aggressive or unkind way.

sighs. But the point is that you do not know that she did any of that or that she was aggressive. This is coming from no place other than your imagination. And simply put, teachers are allowed to shout, whether you like it or not.

doing what she did, but that was not what the post was asking, it was asking if I should complain about it, to which I have been told loud and clear I should not, which is fine, but the unkindness laced through the replies is not.

My replies are not unkind. Many many other replies to you are not unkind. Some people have written things I would not have, myself. But for the most part you are mistaking frankness in many replies for unkindness and the tone of many of yours in response to people’s replies to you at the beginning, though, are telling. What is unkind is to ask for advice and to be graceless when it is given because you don’t like what’s said.

What is also unkind, that you cannot or will not see, is to be so determined that someone has definitely done something wrong when you did not witness any of it for yourself. Astonishing.

21 pages of people mostly trying to guide you to the realisation you‘re the one in the hole.
I’m out.

Also, OP, if you’re still on the thread, if I had my current class where sadly at the moment it is a battle to get them to do anything quietly and a parent complained about me raising my voice one one occasion, I honestly think that might be the thing to tip me over into leaving teaching.

Honestly, you fucking try it.

If she was effing and blinding of course speak to the head….. but she wasn’t.

Kids are arseholes sometimes and need a firm word.

how would you have worded it?

I’ll say it again … YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT THE TEACHER SAID OR HOW THEY SAID IT BECAUSE YIU ERENT IN THE CLASSROOM.

You are making your own interpretation and judgement of something you sensative, anxious 6 year old has told you. You are saying a teacher was aggressive and unprofessional when you don’t know this. You are saying you’ll choose not to complain about this behaviour that you don’t even know happened - as if the teacher should be grateful you’ve decided not to ‘pick this battle.’

being a parent isn’t about ‘being in the pockets of teachers’ … it’s about respecting what they do and supporting them and working in partnership. You sound like a nightmare. I’d suggest you homeschooling to protect staff at your children’s school but I’d be concerned about the welfare and wellbeing of your children.

but we do know that you abuse animals, shout regularly at your children so that they are scared (which is not normal) and get to the ‘end of your tether with them. It is you who needs to be reported not this poor teacher who I pity for having to have you as a parent. I am beyond concerned that you used to (hopefully no more) worked in a nursery and were responsible for children’s well-being.

People telling you you’re wrong isn’t being bullied.

Your behaviour towards this teacher is as best harrassment and at worst bullying.

your constant need to say what a great parent you are and need for validation on online platforms suggests that you aren’t.

My son's class is a car crash. Last year I spent about a dozen or so half days with them - and I've done the same since reception (COVID notwithstanding). They are nice kids generally but omg they are hard work and they have soooo many issues between them. There isn't another class in the school like them.

I've had to complain - for safeguarding and bullying reasons. I absolutely hate doing it. I always end up apologising for it. I know I'm not alone in what I've complained about but it doesn't make it any easier. It makes me really uncomfortable to complain.

We've made a point of saying this is what we are complaining about and this is what we would like to achieve from the complain. We have not blamed anyone and we've even stated it's clear that one of the children who is a problem really needs more help and support than he's getting because this, this and this are happening.

I have been very aware that it's difficult to complain on the basis of what your child says. So a lot has been on the basis of what I've seen and making a point that we think this is happening and we are trying to get our son to talk to an adult in school when incidents have occurred rather than coming home telling us and then us having to come in about it.

How you construct a complaint and how you understand the limits of the 'he said she said' stuff really matters. If you go in with the mindset that you are trying to work WITH the teachers to achieve a goal rather than attacking them, you are going to get a much more positive outcome for all concerned. The teachers need to feel you are on the same side.

I've seen other parents kicking off in various ways. It doesn't help anyone. It takes up more of the teachers time and effort for starters. One of my friends is a teacher and by Friday she's had enough - and it's always about the parents not the kids.

Don't be part of the problem. A complaint can be part of a solution, but ultimately you need the teacher onside for that.