To think Neighbour Recording noises from my Flat/getting a microphone is unhinged

[FreetoBeeme]

Hi everyone,

I'm sorry this reads long but there's too much backstory to leave out.

There was a flood in my bathroom this evening after a basin in the sink overflowed. I was distracted because I was trying to coax my child who was in the living room into having a shower and thought it would be quick. However it turned into a small temper tantrum and I temporarily forgot about the basin. Excess water ended up dripping into the downstairs neighbours flat- the man knocked and let me know, I asked is it bad? And his wife echoed from the bottom of the stairs 'It's very bad' in an aggressive voice. I had never met her before but have heard her voice in this similar tone plenty in the stairwell speaking to her husband. This is the THIRD time her husband has knocked on my door now. This time was obviously completely understandable and necessary.

However when I first moved in, he knocked on my door at 4am in the morning because my child was having a night terror and was crying and banging his foot against the bedframe. I was scared and taken aback that someone would knock on my door at those hours and realised instantly that I wasn't dealing with a reasonable person- At this point I hadn't even seen or met anyone in the building. He said 'Have you just moved in?' 'who have you got in there?'- really pushing boundaries with those types of questions as if he's the police. I told him I wasn't opening the door at that time and it could be discussed in the morning. I suffer from increasing anxiety/panic attacks and this really felt like a violation but I was also genuinely disappointed as I'd hoped to get to a good start with my new neighbours. So my partner offered to speak to him on my behalf as tbh I was a bit shaken up. He admitted to my partner that his wife had put him up to knocking on my door at that time as she hadn't gotten on with the previous person who lived here and she believed that THEY had been deliberately banging to bother them. This sounded ridiculous to us both. My partner had also seen her before and maintained that something wasn't quite right with her and we both agreed based on me also hearing her voice. They're a somewhat socially vulnerable seeming couple, the man is quite weedy and slightly dishevelled looking she is completely the opposite, confrontational, loud and aggressive and seems to have clear issues.

The second time he knocked on my door I was doing a short aerobics routine- no jumping as I'm aware someone lives downstairs- and he came knocking again, I explained what I was doing and that I'd be doing this each morning, I politely told him that I appreciate my personal space and it's an upstairs flat so there will be noise from time to time- basically signs of someone living above him. I asked him his name as he started walking away and he didn't even bother to answer.

So tonight, the one time where I feel he was perfectly justified in knocking, I got my shoes and socks on and went downstairs just to apologise for the leaking water and see what, if any damage was done and how they would be moving forward if there's lasting damage etc. just basic decorum. We discussed the leak, which had stopped as soon as I mopped up the water and there was no damage despite her mentioning 'you can already see the rust'- obviously I paid attention in school so I know rust wouldn't and couldn't magically appeared straight after the fact- I thought thought that odd but ignored it.

So I'm speaking to him and his wife at the door. The conversation starts off cordial enough until his wife starts making complaints about other noises in my flat- mechanical sounding noises, rather aggressively like she wanted a confrontation. She mentioned that she had rights regarding noises. I told her that I know my rights as well and that as it's an upstairs flat there will be certain household noises. I had a noisy fridge a while ago and that got fixed. I explained that it could be either that or the vacuum cleaner- after going round the houses over this for a while and me reiterating that it must have been the fridge but that that was fixed, she turned to me and said 'I think you're gaslighting me'. She swore that she could still hear the noises. She mentioned that she had been recording them! I asked to hear the recordings but her husband couldn't find them in his phone. She and her husband said they would knock AGAIN once they heard the noise again so we could identify what it was. She also said that she believes the noise suddenly switches off when they enter the building- insinuating that I'm somehow playing games. She then said that she was going to buy a microphone to record the noise. Things started to feel surreal and blatantly antagonistic then and I knew I needed to end the interaction. I told her that that sounds like surveillance to me. As I was genuinely perplexed about what this noise could be, I ended the conversation by saying to her husband come up if you hear the noise as I don't know what it is. Before anyone suggests this was inappropriate, it is him who she has been sending up doing the bidding the whole time and she was clearly spoiling for a fight by then, plus he'd said he would. The whole thing is ridiculous but I wanted to get to the bottom of her 'noise' claim and then basically tell them to back off.

As soon as I got upstairs I went about my routine telling my child that they were going to have a shower- that's when I realised what the sound she was talking about was- I have a giant boiler next to the shower and switches for the hot water and the water pressure pump. When the water pressure pump is also in use, when having a shower it does make a low pitched, basal groaning type of sound- however that is simply the plumbing of the place and it's not like I'm lavishing in the shower for hours on end in a cost of living crisis. Either way, it's literally the sound of the cogs turning in the place and doesn't last for more than under ten minutes at a time, most times.

Based on this woman's attitude and energy towards me, which seemed pented up, it would seem she has been moaning about everyday usage sounds at my flat- not jumping, not shouting, not loud music, arguing or anti-social behaviour- yet she has a problem with the sound of a motor/pump coming from the shower during sociable hours? Surely it didn't just start making this specific noise when I moved in?

Both seem like utterly unpleasant, entitled irrational people. From their behaviours they seem to both have issues going on. The man seems beleaguered but equally unpleasant. I'm trying to not let this affect me but I literally haven't done my aerobics since and trust me, I really need the exercise. Now I know it's the shower, what am I going to do? Stop washing my hair? I also feel like I'm tiptoeing around the flat, yet still knowing that it doesn't matter and that they'd find ANYTHING to complain about. AIBU to think this couple are completely unhinged? What is to be done about this type of behaviour?

Yeah 4am's not on but OP is so blase about the flooding & all the water damage she caused, she makes it sound like a little leak (I bet she didn't even offer to pay to fix the browning or potential issues, and she won't even if their ceiling collapses in future).

Just like PP, it makes me think she's downplaying the noise? If I heard (possibly amplified due to the building structure, but I wouldn't have known that) a child's crying and banging/hitting noises i.e. potential abuse / domestic fight at 4am, I wouldn't go knock because I'm a woman, but I might if I were a man.

electric toothbrush - I'd either ditch it or brush teeth earlier

Don't ditch it! They are way better for cleaning your teeth properly than electric ones.

OP, I think it's obvious that you can't expect a balanced judgement from a lot of people on here.

Yes, there have been a number of issues from your flat that have been cause for complaint but that doesn't make YOU a nightmare neighbour.

The flood - Yep, you messed up. You held your hands up. It happens. Could have been avoided but we're all human. They're right to be a bit pissed but not aggressive and the whole rust comment tells me a lot about the kind of person you're dealing with.

The night terror - They heard a child screaming randomly in the night. If they were knocking your door to check you were ok, I'd get it but to complain is a dick move at that time of the night. To @surreygirl1987, I'm sure you have knocked for less noise at that time of the morning but I hope to god it was music or something genuinely inconsiderate rather than a child having a night terror.

The fridge - it happens, it got fixed. It's an unavoidable reality (f they were hearing it).

The aerobics - I get why people could consider you in the wrong here but, you don't know how much sound carries until someone points it out to you, every building is different. You were avoiding anything with jumps because you were trying to be considerate. Obviously even heavy footwork is going to carry in that building. As long as you're aware of it going forward, you're not in the wrong. I couldn't begrudge a neighbour some aerobics if it was at a reasonable time but t hat's me.

The plumbing - again, not your fault. You can report to the landlord.

You've had a bad run of luck but I don't think you've done anything out of malice of been consciously inconsiderate.

If it was me, I'd wait a day or so, go down and tell them you think you've found the culprit. Ask if hey can listen out while you put the shower on and then go back down to see. If it is, tell them you'll report it to the landlord. It show's you being pro-active. If they're still being aggressive, you definitely know you have a problem on your hands and you know what you're dealing with going forward.

I think people are missing the fact that there's a way to deal with issues and how these people are going about it is the problem here. There's a huge chance they're the type who don't understand that communal living means compromise and that you can't have an entirely silent life in a block of flats. They need to communicate their needs in other ways. I worked in letting for 6 years (albeit a decade ago) and I used to be surprised at how many noise complaints where completely unreasonable and mostly came down to a lack of compromise and unrealistic expectations from living in flats.

On the other hand, I have lived under a real nightmare neighbour for a year or so during the pandemic. It got the the point where I couldn't sleep and, on the nights it was quiet, I'd still not be able to relax because every subtle noise would trigger me into thinking something was about to happen. I've always been laidback with noise from above but this was extreme and constant and I couldn't get it resolved. It took a good 6 months after they had gone before I settled. Every time I heard a bit of faint music frum upstairs, I could feel the anxiety building. It wasn't their problem, it was mine and I made sure it stayed my problem. It's possible you're getting a bit of the residual stress from the previous neighbour (if they really were bad). They might be dealing with anxiety which is making them hyper aware of noise and you should be sensitive to that possibility. Hold your hands up to things you are responsible for and fix them but be firm and don't take shit for things that are out of your control or unreasonable.

I have been really surprised by the opprobrium this thread has attracted and just wanted to offer my sympathy to you op. No advice, sadly. I just hope it all works out.

Thank you! That knock on my door at 4am was my first ever interaction with him- I knew from then that there was something completely off- social awkwardness and boundary issues. It's the fact that he asked 'who have you got in there' as if he pays bills here or something. I could've rung the police there and then but I was more befuddled than angry at the time.

Thanks! The responses have definitely gotten a bit better overnight- I'm not sure if there's more troll like behaviour late night or something. Some really odd responses for sure. Lot's of classist, sexist overtones and weird/fictional assertions about a complete stranger. Apparently being a woman in a flat with a child means I have a 'special place in hell'? Some really unhinged pathetic responses given the cost of living crisis and the private rental market right now- as if turning down a second floor flat is an option.

It's crazy to think some of these people walk around in public pretending to be normal and secretly have those abusive tendencies under the cover of the internet where no one's watching. They'd be happy to know that I slept like a baby last night after seeing their comments AND the world is still turning!

Now if I'd made a thread that I ditched my electric toothbrush because the neighbours complained, I'd probably get told to grow a backbone! Imagine throwing off your dental hygiene routine for a neighbour. I still don't know if that's what she's referring to or the shower plumbing, but I could use it earlier I suppose.

you should have stopped your child kicking the bedframe straight away

LOL. The OP says her child was having a night terror. Do you know what a night terror is? It's not a prolonged thing. Any noise, like kicking out or screaming, is short and sharp, not an ongoing noise that you can simply stop someone from making.

You're getting some ridiculous replies on here, OP.

The noise you describe is all just part of living in a flat. Nobody can live in a flat and think they will never hear their neighbours' boiler/shower/children crying at night etc. And you took care to limit your aerobics to a routine with no jumping. The fact that your neighbour is so aggressive, and that she is also convinced that the previous neighbours were making noise on purpose and assumes that you are doing the same, suggests to me that she is quite paranoid and intolerant.

The leak is unfortunate but these things do happen and you apologised and went to check things.

I've been surprised by the opposite. I think from the unpleasant tone of her posts and the way she speaks about them that she's very much downplaying what's gone on and she is a large part of the problem. Love to hear the neighbours' side of this one.

Most of what they're complaining about are part & parcel of flat life although I wouldn't be too chuffed about the water...

However I'd be in a quandary over the child's night terrors. 4am & you hear a child screaming & loud banging noises from the flat above.
I don't know if I'd be knocking on your door or calling 101 - with that kind of noise in the early hours, all sorts of awful things spring to mind.

You are completely right, the responses have improved vastly overnight imo but I'm not sure what the initial witch hunt was about. The overtones were needlessly classis and sexist imo. I think they read something and instantly had a certain type of person in mind, which brought out the vitriol. Thanks for your balanced perspective on each point:

The flood was the last thing I would've wanted to happen. Again, really weird that some people are saying I was being blasé about it. I literally went downstairs to knock on their door, apologise and talk out next steps when the woman suddenly started a confrontation about other household noises and raising her voice at me in an aggressive manner after a somewhat cordial chat. Telling me she has rights. That's when I told her that so do I and matched her tone. Not one thing these neighbours have complained about is an infraction on their rights to free enjoyment or can be classed as antisocial behaviour. I cannot afford to beat myself up about the flooding, like others seem to want me to do here. I confronted the situation head on, went down there and apologised.

The night terrors are horrible. When it happens I go straight to my child and soothe them. I have even held their feet despite people again here acting like I just let them do it out of entitlement. They did it again last night! And they're not even awake so when I do try to soothe, nothing works. It runs in my family!

I love what you've said about the aerobics because I definitely picked a no-jumping short work out to be considerate. This was only after being here for a matter of weeks and shortly after the guy knocked at 4am so I had a feeling that he might knock again for something relatively small. Again, it's interesting to see how many people think that a short (no jump) work out during sociable hours is still unacceptable. From that day I completely stopped them and mentioned this, yet was still called a 'nightmare neighbour.' I personally think that if someone isn't breaking the law, a bit of noise for up to half an hour at a decent time of day for something like music, exercise etc. shouldn't lead to anyone knocking on your door.

I agree, I think to call me a nightmare neighbour is beyond dramatic. I've literally just left my last place where a new family moved next door where I've heard violence/fights, chucking furniture, shouting aggressively and randomly as a genuine form of communication, the smell of weed, loud music with racial slurs that they rapped along to and video games turned up loudly- having to hold important Zoom calls in other rooms, had them chuck stones at my windows because they were too thick or high to realise it wasn't their own window. I had my own affairs going on and wouldn't have dreamed of knocking on their door though, mostly for my own safety! I considered calling the Police and contacting property management but they were quite blasé and I didn't want trouble at my door. That is an extreme of course but I know what anti-social behaviour is. I am most certainly someone who keeps to myself and prefers to keep things cordial with neighbours.

Thank you! I have zero reason to do anything out of malice to complete strangers. Again, not sure why people are projecting that I am somehow courting this type of tedious drama.

Again, you completely understand the hunch I have with their approach. From my experience, they have crossed boundaries and been gruff and discourteous. I believe that this is a type of entitlement owing to the fact that they've been there for ages- it takes a special type of person to knock at someone's door at 4am saying 'who have you got in there?' His wife is also the moaner type, I've heard her loudly whinging from my flat out in the hallway and in their own place since I've been here. People again are saying I'm being judgemental about them, but they're having a laugh. I've held back- they definitely have social issues and a complete lack of understanding of how they come across. In reality they have no right to ask me who's in my home or even what household machinery I have running in here. I have attempted to be reasonable.

You're suggestion is exactly what I was and am going to do! I will go back one more time and let him hear the shower. Then I will be asking him to refrain from knocking at my door any further unless it's an emergency.

As I previously mentioned, real noisy neighbours do induce anxiety. My last were a rowdy family who moved next door. I completely get it. Funny thing is, the person who previously lived here was hardly ever here! I think that is the point. Perhaps they were used to the quiet. They did mention that this couple had complained about the smell of their cooking once and the man mentioned a spat that he had to intervene in, but it's a weird situation to move into and I am definitely not the partying, loud music, stream of visitors type! Without getting into it, I think they suffer with something each separately. The woman is very confrontational, loud and has a paranoid stance. I knew this before ever interacting with her because my partner had mentioned it. The guy is also completely off! I will update when I speak to them. Fingers crossed. Thank you for all your points made.

The flood was awful, a real brain fart moment and he had every right to come knocking, THAT time.

Again, had he knocked at 4am out of concern, that would've been a bit more reasonable. He didn't give a hoot about my child, he later told my partner that his wife told him to come knocking as she believed it was the previous occupant deliberately banging up here to taunt her! They hadn't realised she's moved out.

With all those implications of abuse made, I've got nothing to say to you really other than you've made a pointless contribution to this thread. Bye.

Did the basin overflow because the tap pressure was too high so it overwhelmed the overflow? If that's the case you (or landlord) need to get the tap pressure sorted. If you have a child, they often forget to turn things off. And obviously you could do the same thing again in which case any neighbour would be entitled to be livid.

And, as others have said, you seem to be the problem in much of this.

Yeah - the neighbours aren't the problem

Yes some of these replies are very sanctimonious- you'd think they're living perfect lives in castles somewhere There's really something to be said for people who prey on the admissions of others- these 'repent!' type answers are bizarre to me and are just giving off misdirected anger vibes. Everyone knows there's a housing crisis for goodness sake. If I'm living in an upstairs flat with a child, it's for very good reason and none of their bloody business- they could've ignored my post. In reality, there would've been 20 other applicants behind me, according to current statistics. So IDGAF what they think about that. It's either what I could get my hands on or the bloody streets!

Thank you, in a flat, you're going to hear stuff. As long as it doesn't count as noise pollution and is normal household noise, there really is zero justification for knocking on someone's door at 4am. The fact that they thought that it was the previous tenant taunting them is bonkers.

I'm happy to receive constructive criticism- I can see that a lot of people surprisingly don't think I should've been doing low impact aerobics at home- I don't agree and find it quite worrying that people think others should shrink themselves for irrational neighbours complaining about living sounds when paying an arm and a leg to live there. I specified that my exercises were ten minutes long and didn't have jumping, plus were done during sociable hours- plus I've all but stopped them for now anyway. It's still good to read other perspectives though.

She is definitely paranoid. When she said I 'feel like you're gaslighting me', I knew that was a massive red flag because I had never met or spoken to her a day in my life before yesterday- I have no reason to gaslight her and would stay as far away as possible from that type of conflict driven personality. She went straight to conflict and confrontation about other mystery 'machine' sounds in the home, telling me she'd buy a microphone when I'd only come down to see about the leak- she was clearly being antagonistic and not even about the leak itself. I don't consider those actions indicative of a straightforward personality and have heard her shouting plenty of times before, even knocking about slamming in her flat at 1pm a few nights ago. I can tell she's a piece of work and even her husband went mute when I matched her tone and it looked like things were going left at the end of our conversation. I will be having one more chat with them about this mystery noise (I think it's the shower or my electric toothbrush) before I go 'grey rock' on them.

They can record you, in fact the council or noise prevention team would ask them to.
I would not wish to live near you, with flooding, a noisy baby, with tantrums and late night bed kicking, and thumping aerobics every day,all when you've just moved in.

Thanks for the response. That's what I went downstairs to their flat for in the first place- to apologise and discuss the situation.

A lot of people agree about the aerobics. I personally think that a ten minute session with no jumping at sociable hours should be fine- for most NORMAL people. I have stopped it for now.

About the electric toothbrush, good point about doing this earlier, I had considered this. I'm a night owl so obviously brush my teeth a bit later.

The shower again is used for well under ten minutes at a time. I honestly believe they like to complain, most of these things are normal household noises.

I think I'm well within my right to be defensive to some of these replies. If you look at them from the start, you can clearly see that some of them are quite pejorative. I asked for perspectives, not people telling me where I should and shouldn't live. If they think I'm gonna be slapping myself with a fish an dropping to my knees, that's on them.

These people had my apology, the woman clearly started a confrontation and raising her voice about other day to day noise. I matched her tone and let her know that I would also be advocating for myself. That is not normal behaviour No laws have been broken here. The things her husband has knocked at my door for have been arbitrary and he doesn't get to ask me who I have in my home either. I will have one more chat with them about the mystery noise before keeping my distance. The woman in particular is aggressive and confrontational, I won't be tolerating that.

I will not be shrinking my entire existence i.e. showering, brushing teeth, covering the mouth of a crying child in a night terror etc to please them and they were told as such- that's utter madness. If they have an upstairs neighbour they should expect to hear signs of everyday living up here.

@FreetoBeeme

My post sounds a bit bossy on read back. I m sorry i was probably distracted when I wrote it. I've not read all the posts but appreciate how these chats can go.

It will be easier in the long run if you can get along and I agree they probably are looking for issues.

Eh?

You will often find people who have had noise issues in the past will be over anxious about having problems again, as a result they often become the problem themselves by instantly jumping on the new tenant the second they move in and making endless trivial noise complaints. It stems from a genuine fear of having problems again but can turn into them becoming quite aggressive in their complaints and unreasonable themselves, like knocking on the door at 4am and demanding to know who is in there. It's usually best when this sort of thing starts as soon as you move in not to engage anything you know is not a reasonable complaint.

How about a bit of self-reflection?

You caused water to leak into their flat because you were absent minded...That really was poor behaviour on your part.

Do your aerobics at the gym and if you are renting ask your landlord to check the boiler and shower because the system should not be making the type of sounds you are describing.

The point is the flats might be badly insulated and noise travels more than you realise.

You seem to blame everything on them but I think you should take a good look at your behaviour too and be more proactive in term of not causing anymore nuisance to your neighbours.

You are 100% the problem here. It's laughable that you think it's the neighbour. Do better.

How about actually READING what I wrote.

I approached them regarding the leak, don't act like I brushed it off.

I clearly said that the aerobics were TEN minute low impact routines- which I have STOPPED doing. What's your problem? You don't get to tell ME what to do and where to do it- though you're deluded enough to think you can😆

Why are you completely IGNORING everything I've said about these people and the fact that a man, unknown to me, saw fit to knock on my door at 4am? I could have easily called the Police.

You think I'm going to silence and shrink myself over these people knocking because they're paranoid, aggressive cluster b presenting types? Please spare me the twattery.

How about reflecting on why YOU think I should be slapping myself over these gnarly joyless people. You realise that there's other people in the building who also live in the vicinity who don't exhibit their twatty behaviours right? I've never witnessed an ounce of pleasantry between that pair but carry on.

Looks like the night trolls are coming back😆

This is completely the case. I don't know why I've got foolish people giving tone death responses when I've clearly said they had issues with the previous occupant and it does seem like the wife was waiting to pounce. Angsty behaviour aside she seems to have some mental health issues imo. She's extremely aggressive and hostile and I've heard her rants and shouty voice since I've moved here in the hallways- literally only met her face to face yesterday.

With that said I'm not easily intimidated, however the attitude is extremely unwarranted and they don't own the building nor is any noise pollution or anti-social behaviour being committed. I've come across entitled policing types before, it's normally linked to personality disorders and the such. You are right about decreasing engagement. Though I will get back to them on that one mystery noise, I will follow through on ignoring them. Engagement seems to feed them.