To think Neighbour Recording noises from my Flat/getting a microphone is unhinged

[FreetoBeeme]

Hi everyone,

I'm sorry this reads long but there's too much backstory to leave out.

There was a flood in my bathroom this evening after a basin in the sink overflowed. I was distracted because I was trying to coax my child who was in the living room into having a shower and thought it would be quick. However it turned into a small temper tantrum and I temporarily forgot about the basin. Excess water ended up dripping into the downstairs neighbours flat- the man knocked and let me know, I asked is it bad? And his wife echoed from the bottom of the stairs 'It's very bad' in an aggressive voice. I had never met her before but have heard her voice in this similar tone plenty in the stairwell speaking to her husband. This is the THIRD time her husband has knocked on my door now. This time was obviously completely understandable and necessary.

However when I first moved in, he knocked on my door at 4am in the morning because my child was having a night terror and was crying and banging his foot against the bedframe. I was scared and taken aback that someone would knock on my door at those hours and realised instantly that I wasn't dealing with a reasonable person- At this point I hadn't even seen or met anyone in the building. He said 'Have you just moved in?' 'who have you got in there?'- really pushing boundaries with those types of questions as if he's the police. I told him I wasn't opening the door at that time and it could be discussed in the morning. I suffer from increasing anxiety/panic attacks and this really felt like a violation but I was also genuinely disappointed as I'd hoped to get to a good start with my new neighbours. So my partner offered to speak to him on my behalf as tbh I was a bit shaken up. He admitted to my partner that his wife had put him up to knocking on my door at that time as she hadn't gotten on with the previous person who lived here and she believed that THEY had been deliberately banging to bother them. This sounded ridiculous to us both. My partner had also seen her before and maintained that something wasn't quite right with her and we both agreed based on me also hearing her voice. They're a somewhat socially vulnerable seeming couple, the man is quite weedy and slightly dishevelled looking she is completely the opposite, confrontational, loud and aggressive and seems to have clear issues.

The second time he knocked on my door I was doing a short aerobics routine- no jumping as I'm aware someone lives downstairs- and he came knocking again, I explained what I was doing and that I'd be doing this each morning, I politely told him that I appreciate my personal space and it's an upstairs flat so there will be noise from time to time- basically signs of someone living above him. I asked him his name as he started walking away and he didn't even bother to answer.

So tonight, the one time where I feel he was perfectly justified in knocking, I got my shoes and socks on and went downstairs just to apologise for the leaking water and see what, if any damage was done and how they would be moving forward if there's lasting damage etc. just basic decorum. We discussed the leak, which had stopped as soon as I mopped up the water and there was no damage despite her mentioning 'you can already see the rust'- obviously I paid attention in school so I know rust wouldn't and couldn't magically appeared straight after the fact- I thought thought that odd but ignored it.

So I'm speaking to him and his wife at the door. The conversation starts off cordial enough until his wife starts making complaints about other noises in my flat- mechanical sounding noises, rather aggressively like she wanted a confrontation. She mentioned that she had rights regarding noises. I told her that I know my rights as well and that as it's an upstairs flat there will be certain household noises. I had a noisy fridge a while ago and that got fixed. I explained that it could be either that or the vacuum cleaner- after going round the houses over this for a while and me reiterating that it must have been the fridge but that that was fixed, she turned to me and said 'I think you're gaslighting me'. She swore that she could still hear the noises. She mentioned that she had been recording them! I asked to hear the recordings but her husband couldn't find them in his phone. She and her husband said they would knock AGAIN once they heard the noise again so we could identify what it was. She also said that she believes the noise suddenly switches off when they enter the building- insinuating that I'm somehow playing games. She then said that she was going to buy a microphone to record the noise. Things started to feel surreal and blatantly antagonistic then and I knew I needed to end the interaction. I told her that that sounds like surveillance to me. As I was genuinely perplexed about what this noise could be, I ended the conversation by saying to her husband come up if you hear the noise as I don't know what it is. Before anyone suggests this was inappropriate, it is him who she has been sending up doing the bidding the whole time and she was clearly spoiling for a fight by then, plus he'd said he would. The whole thing is ridiculous but I wanted to get to the bottom of her 'noise' claim and then basically tell them to back off.

As soon as I got upstairs I went about my routine telling my child that they were going to have a shower- that's when I realised what the sound she was talking about was- I have a giant boiler next to the shower and switches for the hot water and the water pressure pump. When the water pressure pump is also in use, when having a shower it does make a low pitched, basal groaning type of sound- however that is simply the plumbing of the place and it's not like I'm lavishing in the shower for hours on end in a cost of living crisis. Either way, it's literally the sound of the cogs turning in the place and doesn't last for more than under ten minutes at a time, most times.

Based on this woman's attitude and energy towards me, which seemed pented up, it would seem she has been moaning about everyday usage sounds at my flat- not jumping, not shouting, not loud music, arguing or anti-social behaviour- yet she has a problem with the sound of a motor/pump coming from the shower during sociable hours? Surely it didn't just start making this specific noise when I moved in?

Both seem like utterly unpleasant, entitled irrational people. From their behaviours they seem to both have issues going on. The man seems beleaguered but equally unpleasant. I'm trying to not let this affect me but I literally haven't done my aerobics since and trust me, I really need the exercise. Now I know it's the shower, what am I going to do? Stop washing my hair? I also feel like I'm tiptoeing around the flat, yet still knowing that it doesn't matter and that they'd find ANYTHING to complain about. AIBU to think this couple are completely unhinged? What is to be done about this type of behaviour?

@FreetoBeeme

I get you with the strange neighbours.

A neighbour in our street used to complain to the council about the old women down stairs making cabbage and the smell wafting up into her home. She told the council the lady makes it on purpose to annoy her. Her and her husband used to terrorise the kids in the street and other neighbours if they didn't agree on something. They are very 'well known' in our town.

Batshit crazy.

BTW I'd advise you to get an indoor camera, if they are recording you or make complaints then you have footage from your own home of what's going on. It doesn't have to be facing you but could be put on a hallway. Also, a ring doorbell.

Oh come on, anyone can tell a child screaming suddenly at 4am is probably having a nightmare. How are you supposed to stop that from happening? There's no need to go to someone's door because of that unless the screaming sounds like something else.

You certainly prove with your replies yabu

You could change your basin over to one that has an over flow built into the back of the basin bowl.
Your landlord could invest in this to save on repairs when you forget the tap.
You should not do aerobics except outside or in a gym.
Tell your landlord of the noisy plumbing and remember not to use the plumbing during the deep of night.

They are very kind neighbours. They thought of the safety of your son when they heard him screaming in the night. It is usual for neighbours to phone the Police.

Tell them to complain to the council, they can install proper noise monitoring equipment.

The council will quickly conclude that there is no issue. Crack on with your aerobics (as ling as its not at 4am/11pm)

The flooding- they deserved an apology

Aerobics - you should be able to do but if an issue I'd stop

Night terrors - can't be helped but I'd try to keep child as far away from their bedroom (neighbours) as possible and I'd be apologetic/ bottle of wine to neighbours

Machine noise -
electric toothbrush - I'd either ditch it or brush teeth earlier.
Shower - not much you can do unless report to landlord?

You sound quite defensive about things that are essentially your responsibility. You need to be more considerate, even if you can't change something you can be apologetic/ empathetic. The only fault I'd say for neighbour was coming round in the early hours unless they were worried for your child's safety. I'd have probably pre warned them and apologised in advance

@Pleasestopurbs what side of the cave did you crawl out of this morning. Like people have just got an ability to buy a house! I bet you are OPs female neighbour. Her kid sounds pretty normal.

OP agree you shouldn't be doing aerobics in an upstairs flat......that's not normal living noises.

@FreetoBeeme

I think just don’t engage/answer the door to them - and carry on as you are, but with consideration. I don’t even think aerobics is wrong - so long as you are not stamping or making a huge amount of noise.

If they do keep pestering you, just tell them that you’ll mediate through the council. Have a simple one line response : I believe I’m making normal living noise-if you don’t agree please speak to the council. Thanks, bye.

Ditch the electric toothbrush, why? It doesn't make much more noise than a vibrator.

And - no. Don’t answer the door at 4am. I’d say if that continues, or they are harassing/being abusive then it’s a police matter.

Some of the things you’ve mentioned aren’t perfect, OP (the leak being the main one) but they happen. I’ve been the top floor neighbour too - within a house with my own extended family. I am notoriously over-cautious but my partner is a typical man. He bangs cupboard doors and doesn’t close drawers gently. We were often getting complaints from my own uncle about flushing the toilet in the night and banging around in the kitchen to the point where we moved out as soon as we could. We’re usually asleep by 10 so I didn’t think we were unreasonable at all. But as for exercise routines of any kind, I tried and could feel the shaking of the floor so I didn’t even bother after one or two.

Are you in a position to put carpets/rugs down? I found that soft furnishings really helped. They absorb the sound considerably. If you have hard floors it probably does sound like a herd of elephants are above, through no fault of your own. I think many downstairs neighbours think people have some kind of vendetta against them 😂

I think it’s because she said she really needs the exercise. But we all do, don’t we?

Just sounds like flat life. Obviously the leak was an issue but these things happen. We were flooded badly three times in our last flat!
It clearly sounds like they are obsessing over every little noise. I wonder if they've got like that because of the previous neighbours being noisy. I had a very bad neighbour once and then every noise they made, even reasonable noise, irritated me because I was so on edge waiting for it to start.
You've had some horrible comments here, I bet they aren't as quiet as they think!

From the tone of your post, you seem like you are trying to resolve the situation with the noise and the nieghbours upstairs.

First of all, your child was having a nightmare so your nieghbour choosing to knock on your door at 04:00 is bang out of order. You were right to refuse to open the door at that time and if he does it again, threaten him or her with the police.

The boiler pump noise is something they will just have to get used to. They can not expect you or your child not to take showers and this noise is classed as living noise and landlords can do nothing about that.

If these nieghbours continue to bother you, it could be classed as harassment and as your noise is living noise which you have a right to make.

If they continue to harass you, make a log of all incidents including those of the past with dates, times and details then contact your local council to get them to deal with them as warnings and threats if eviction if they don't stop bothering you.

Hope this helps.

Mumsnet need to start moderating outside of office hours. These AI posts are getting out of hand.

Lol.. I don't think my partner is shaped like a giant or has duck feet or anything though. When my partner and I tried to analyse the noise, the neighbours could hear when it was just me in too and I'm decidedly ungigantic

I think noise just carries and amplifies more than usual in certain buildings, sometimes there's no choice but if it's really bad then you have to figure out what you can do like rugs

It doesn’t sound like you’re being noisy. The boiler, fridge, aerobics, tantrum are all normal noises. It’s likely they had a very difficult time with the previous tenants and are now hyper sensitive and alert. Or possibly they have conditions which make them over sensitive to normal sounds.

It feels as if you are downplaying the flooding when that is actually a really massive thing. Even though it was an accident, it must have been so shocking for your neighbours and it will take time and money to sort out.

So that makes me think you might be downplaying some of the other things too.

You are right that it is not on to knock on a neighbour's door at 4am. Unless it was far worse, and went on far longer, than you think or are leading us to believe.

A little bit of light aerobics, with no stepping or jumping, that only lasted ten minutes? Sounds reasonable. Unless it was a bit louder and a bit longer than you realise.

You really do sound flippant about the flooding. It is in everyone's interests to get along if moving isn't an option. Or you'll find yourself and your child being intentionally woken at 3am by music or vacuuming, and it'll escalate.

A family with children moved in above me. It is awful. My flat is now on the market lol

I agree! It's tiresome.

Honestly, this is just part of living in a flat.

I live in an end terraced house and my neighbours have three kids. Two of which (the youngest) have a thing for running around and being very noisy.

Would I complain? No.

There will be noise from me that they can hear and it’s just part of living around people. So long as it’s just day to day living- and not having all night raves- what can be done?

I try and be mindful of my noise, but I’m not going to creep around my home like a ghost when I pay to live there and own the property same as they do.

Just as I don’t expect them to creep about like ghosts.

obviously the leak is your fault and you are liable for any damage caused. But the other stuff is just part and parcel of living around people.

If they’re so sensitive to noise, they need to rethink their living situation as they’re the ones with the problem.

It’s not nice to make people feel on edge about just going about your life. Not at all. I suspect that they’re highly sensitive to sound but that’s not your fault.

Thank you for the synopsis. I lost the will to live reading the OP. I also think the OP is the issue. Some noise yes, that is living in a flat. BUt the OP seems to be managing to go out of their way. I wouldn't have knocked at 4am if I heard screaming from the new neighbours though - I would have called the police.

Big picture: neighbour noise infuriates people. There’s a story in the papers about it today in which one couple sued another for it. Sometimes people are justified in their anger, sometimes they are not but if you are already disposed to be annoyed with your neighbours every perceived breach of quiet will wind you up.

I had a years long dispute with a neighbour who was incensed by the noise my boiler made. She made my life hell because I wouldn’t agree to install a very expensive piece of technology in my boiler which would’ve slightly reduced the noise.

By the time you get to the point you have reached it’s almost irrelevant who has done what because people are upset and behaving irrationally. I think the water leak would have pissed me off and I think doing aerobics is daft when you know they predisposed to be sensitive. But they do sound like people who are looking for a reason to complain and they are literally waiting for you to screw up.

If you can’t move all you can do is a)de-escalate as far as you can. Don’t do anything that you know will aggravate them. You can’t control your kid getting upset but don’t let the bath/shower run over or do noisy exercises immediately in their earshot. And b) keep a record of their complaints. If they cross over into harassment you can take it up with the police; you do have a right to make normal levels of household noise without being bullied.

They were definitely unreasonable to knock on your door at 4am because a child was crying, and they do sound antagonistic and difficult.

I think you will have to forego the aerobics as I can see how that would be very noisy for a downstairs neighbour, but the rest of it is just inevitable household noise which comes from having neighbours.

If they keep bothering you, tell them to contact the council. They can do a noise assessment which will likely show you’re not making an unreasonable amount of noise. You don’t need to answer the door to them or engage with them directly yourself.