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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be genuinely shocked by the apparent illiteracy of Andrea Jenkyns?

256 replies

sorrynotathome · 14/11/2023 15:10

Have we really reached the point where it is acceptable for a senior MP to publish a serious (presumably) document that is barely legible?! It's not a text or a tweet or a Mumsnet post for goodness' sake. It reads as though she spoke it into her phone and hoped for the best. If this is what passes for communication nowadays, no wonder people struggle to connect and constantly misunderstand each other.

OP posts:
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MasterBeth · 14/11/2023 16:16

cardibach · 14/11/2023 16:15

I’m a teacher. I can read and understand lots of things which are ungrammatical, poorly constructed and (though these done apply to a typed letter) poorly spelled and scruffily written. that doesn’t mean any of them are good enough, does it? They wouldn’t pass GCSE, for example.
I don’t know about you, but I’d like my representatives to be able to construct decent English. But then I haven’t had enough of experts, either 🤷‍♀️

I can read and understand lots of things which are ungrammatical, poorly constructed and (though these done apply to a typed letter) poorly spelled and scruffily written. that doesn’t mean any of them are good enough, does it? They wouldn’t pass GCSE, for example.

Would this? ^^

cardibach · 14/11/2023 16:17

MasterBeth · 14/11/2023 16:14

It's clear what she meant:

"Rishi's Machivellian involvement in getting rid of [...] Boris Johnson [...] was unforgiveable enough."

I am far more concerned by her appalling opinions than her poor punctuation.

I’m appalled by both.
The fact it’s possible to decipher what we think she meant based on her previous comments and behaviour is irrelevant. If you knew nothing about her it wouldn’t be clear. The absolute bare minimum for a formal communication from a professional person is that it is clear and unambiguous. This is achieved in large part by using correct grammar.
Why are people so content with dumbed down nonsense?

DuesToTheDirt · 14/11/2023 16:18

DuesToTheDirt · 14/11/2023 16:15

Yeah, illiterate.

"How long are MP's going to sit on their hands and let he and his out-of-touch advisors..."

Plus, she doesn't seem to know what constitutes a sentence.

Ooh, I had almost the same sentence there as @MrsJellybee Grin.

cardibach · 14/11/2023 16:19

MasterBeth · 14/11/2023 16:16

I can read and understand lots of things which are ungrammatical, poorly constructed and (though these done apply to a typed letter) poorly spelled and scruffily written. that doesn’t mean any of them are good enough, does it? They wouldn’t pass GCSE, for example.

Would this? ^^

The only errors I can see are the typo of done for ‘don’t’ and the failure of my phone to capitalise automatically after a full stop. What else is worrying you?
Added to which, of course, I’m nobody’s elected representative and this isn’t a formal communication.

TooBigForMyBoots · 14/11/2023 16:21

Littlelucas · 14/11/2023 16:02

But giving the middle finger to crowds outside Downing Street is really classy, right?

Well to be fair a baying mob were shouting abuse at her, which she says had been going on for years and included death threats.

She didn't call the majority of the voting population "scum".

Who did that @Littlelucas?

TrickyD · 14/11/2023 16:21

She makes Nadine Dorries look like Einstein.

MrsJellybee · 14/11/2023 16:22

DuesToTheDirt · 14/11/2023 16:18

Ooh, I had almost the same sentence there as @MrsJellybee Grin.

@DuesToTheDirt Great minds… 😉

I have secondhand embarrassment reading Jenkyns’ letter. I’ve been out of the game a while, but to me this is ‘D’ grade GCSE writing (possibly a modern 4).

MrsHughesPinny · 14/11/2023 16:22

This is when you know they’ve gone and written something themselves. They almost never do that. I work in this field, no staffer worth their salt would have let this out.

People like me write all their speeches, statements, and social posts/replies. I often disappoint family/friends who say ‘[a politician] wrote me a letter/replied to my social post’ by telling them that’s the kind of work I do.

CrashyTime · 14/11/2023 16:25

underneaththeash · 14/11/2023 15:29

The sentiment comes across well, I skimmed it and didnt feel there was much wrong with it, IMO they have underestimated the public response to RS taking a "freebie" by not calling an election earlier, he is just milking the opportunity to enjoy being in the top job, no one voted for him except his own MPs?

Iwantmyoldnameback · 14/11/2023 16:27

Angela Rayner called the Tory party scum as I remember. She should have said most.

laclochette · 14/11/2023 16:29

@sorrynotathome it's appalling. Not just inelegant but actively wrong. There's a sentence so incorrectly formed that she actually ends up describing Boris as unforgivable - which, you know, I agree with, but it isn't what she means. That's when something is really, really awry with your literacy.

User0000009 · 14/11/2023 16:30

Well it’s waffle, hyperbole and poorly punctuated.

AppropriateAdult · 14/11/2023 16:30

Good Lord.

I'm unashamedly elitist when it comes to politicians; I want them to be far more intelligent and educated than the average person. Having somebody of the calibre of this letter writer anywhere near a position of power is a disgrace.

Though I love that after a page of barely comprehensible ranting, she signed it off with 'Kind regards' Grin

KingscoteStaff · 14/11/2023 16:31

My Year 6 class assessed it today with the writing moderation guidelines and SPaG programme of study. Our opinion is that she does not achieve age related expectations for Year Six!

IrresponsiblyCertainAboutSexualDimorphism · 14/11/2023 16:31

MasterBeth · 14/11/2023 16:14

It's clear what she meant:

"Rishi's Machivellian involvement in getting rid of [...] Boris Johnson [...] was unforgiveable enough."

I am far more concerned by her appalling opinions than her poor punctuation.

Well I agree with you that she has appalling opinions, and I know what she meant, but someone in her position should be able to express herself unambiguously. We’re paying for this drivel.

laclochette · 14/11/2023 16:31

@cardibach the second sentence of the second paragraph, for example, describes Boris as "unforgivable" the way it's currently written. Which isn't what she means. But that's the meaning of the sentence she's written, because it's so badly constructed.

Passepartoute · 14/11/2023 16:32

CurlewKate · 14/11/2023 15:45

<shrugs> It's perfectly clear what she means. That's what's important.

No, it isn't. There are areas where she has written something very different to what she presumably means, and we can't make assumptions about what she's actually intending to say unless and until she writes it clearly.

TooBigForMyBoots · 14/11/2023 16:34

I remember Rayner calling Tory ministers scum. I don't remember her calling the majority of the voting population "scum", but I'm sure @Littlelucas will be back to tell us who they're talking about.

Mummymummy89 · 14/11/2023 16:36

The fact is that she'd win a lot more people over to her point of view if she wrote more persuasively.

When you write like you're transcribing the rants of The Pub Bore, you won't get anywhere.

I probably sit between neutral and disapproving about Sunak. But reading this stream of consciousness just pushes me towards the sympathetic end of the spectrum

cardibach · 14/11/2023 16:36

laclochette · 14/11/2023 16:31

@cardibach the second sentence of the second paragraph, for example, describes Boris as "unforgivable" the way it's currently written. Which isn't what she means. But that's the meaning of the sentence she's written, because it's so badly constructed.

Yes. As I’ve pointed out twice. Are you meaning to tag someone else?

cardibach · 14/11/2023 16:38

Iwantmyoldnameback · 14/11/2023 16:27

Angela Rayner called the Tory party scum as I remember. She should have said most.

She did. Not the majority of the voting population as a PP seemed to suggest.

Janinejones · 14/11/2023 16:38

@Mummymummy89 Re the Pub Bore
Nigel writes better than that.

cardibach · 14/11/2023 16:40

CrashyTime · 14/11/2023 16:25

The sentiment comes across well, I skimmed it and didnt feel there was much wrong with it, IMO they have underestimated the public response to RS taking a "freebie" by not calling an election earlier, he is just milking the opportunity to enjoy being in the top job, no one voted for him except his own MPs?

The fact that a skim over reveals what she means - given you already know what she’s going to be saying before you read it - isn’t a very high bar though, is it? As I and others have already pointed out she actually writes pretty much the opposite of what she means at one point.

itsfinallytime · 14/11/2023 16:40

Any GCSE English exam markers on here? I would love to know what grade that would achieve in GCSE English Language.

That's a shocking letter from a person who has had an active role in Education for the country. Content aside, there is so much wrong with it it's hard to know where to start. Unfortunately I can't see the Spectator Article as it sits behind a paywall.

And dyslexia is not an excuse, both of my children are dyslexic and write better than that.

CurlewKate · 14/11/2023 16:41

I suspect there are people on here who are with Jacob Rees-Mogg when he rejoices in the return of an Etonian to one of the great offices of state! Personally I am happy with a much more diverse political class- and it that means a little less polish in written communication then so be it. There is much to criticise Jenkyns for-her written English is the least important!