To ask if anyone still thinks Brexit was a good idea?

[KimberleyClark]

Genuinely curious. I can't see how it has improved things at all.

YANBU - Brexit was a terrible idea
YABU - it was a great idea

For a very strange value of "worse".

The German economy is growing slower than the UK economy, but from a much, much higher starting point.

Your argument is that the worst kid at spelling learned 5 new words this week but the top kid only learned two. The top kid is still the top kid, but you're clapping for the thick kid.

The ONLY reason that I hope this subject keeps getting re-surfaced is so that we join some kind of customs union or a better deal than we have now. Then, by the time my DC are my age perhaps we can rejoin.
(I am hoping the world hasn't turned into some nationalistic shit hole by this point)

There were many initiatives like the EU army that the UK blocked. We're no longer able to block anything any more.

The net contribution didn't account for what we made as a result of frictionless trade, did it? And supporting other countries to develop gives a stable environment so it'sworth the money.

The transatlantic trade deal is puny and why would we prioritise trade with far flung nations over our neighbours?

We need immigrants, a large reason for the NHS being so colossally fucked is that the migrant labour we relied on has dried up.

We could always limit immigration, the freedom of movement was dependent on people finding work, we could have refused residency/benefits etc if they didn't but we chose not to.

The COVID vaccines were delivered while we were still part of the EU system. So the EU did not stop us there.

As the the democracy element - we elected EU reps and then had influence over the whole of the EU. Now they can make rules and we pretty much have to follow them if we want to trade.

Plus the prorogation of parliament, several unelected PMs, undermining rule of law, dodgy referendum funding, parade of liars. And now an unelected Lord Cameron is brought in by an unelected PM. Great. That's really taking back control.

We just blamed so many things on the EU that were our own fault. Now the EU can't be blamed any more, the politicians are saying the ECHR is somehow the thing that holds us back from greatness. It's all populist bullshit.

If the EU falls apart, do you really think the UK would be unharmed?

The rest of the world is forming trade blocks in order to compete with the likes of US and China. They do it because it makes sense.

Standardisation is usually the product of consensus from experts and stakeholders. Brexiteers always criticise the concept of standards but can never identify which are problematic, because they represent best practice that industry tends to sign up to. It's a principled opposition that doesn't make business sense.

Like now we've left the EU, are manufacturers queuing up to start making products in inch sizes etc? No because it would be idiotic. Using standards gives you access to the widest possible market and helps ensure products are high quality/don't injure people.

Economic trade will likely stay in tact but FOM is the part that will be strained.

Same for U.K. we’re more likely to go back to trade without FOM if it becomes an option

I'm a remain voter.

Brexshit was a terrible idea and there are no upside. Well, except that UKIP finally disintegrated and Nigel Farage is now heading into the jungle on I'm a Celebrity. He should be right at home there surrounded by cockroaches, snakes and huge, horrendous spiders.

Lol @Topseyt123. I don’t watch I’m a Celebrity but it’s quite satisfying to think of Farage putting something nasty into his mouth, makes a change from all the nasty things that come out of it.

UKIP only disintegrated because enough of the Tory party became indistinguishable from them.

We can ask Cameron, now he's back. Imbecile. Miscalculation of his to ever suggest a referendum. UK population has a reading age of 9.

OK honest question here though - obviously it was a huge miscalculation to concede the option of a referendum by DC. But had we stayed in the SM, what was called BRINO by the hardline brexiteers, it wouldn’t have been as catastrophic. In my view much more damage was caused by the likes of Rees-Mogh, David Davis, even May. Most of the Leave side campaigned on a platform of staying in the single market, which was incompatible with their other proposals but never mind that. I presume Cameron’s lot thought that given that was the only realistic part of their platform, they would run with that.

… the question being why people hate DC so much compared to the bunch of… politicians who have followed him.

There are limited and specific benefits to Brexit & some people have mentioned them.
But Brexit wasn't about a former Asda worker becoming an HGV driver and trebling their salary or as has def happened, trades being able to charge what they like and cherry pick work, whether thats a benefit for anyone else is another matter.

Whether Brexitiers like it or not, the EU is a powerful economic bloc, e.g they told Apple to change their charging port to usb c, Apple did this, they wouldn't for the UK, they'd laugh at the request.

I cannot believe how much cheaper a wide range of goods are in the EU compared to the UK, we always paid a small premium but its a lot more now, thats if you can still get them here.

@jasflowers exactly this. There are a few winners but it's at the expense of everyone else.

@jasflowers hit the send a bit early!!

Has Brexit made getting a house rental easier- no- because the gvt changed rules that now make it not beneficial anyway

Has it stopped immigration- no it's trebled - because they suddenly realised a lot of those pesky EU people were actually filing in a lot of gaps in the lower paid jobs that need to be done, not sitting around claiming £1000s in benefits every month

Has it made seeing a GP easier?- no, because the root cause of this issue had sod all to do with the EU

Has it made goods cheaper? Of course not because various taxes and red tape now come into play and various trade agreements that were in place now no longer apply (USA being one- there wasn't a formal trade
agreement but there was an informal one on goods up to a certain value)

Has it cut red tape for business? Certainly not for anyone who has any element of nonUK business- be it import or export.

Has it been a ginormous waste of £400 billion that could have been out to better use- an emphatic yes!!

@Crikeyalmighty One thing that really pisses me off is that the UK, because of Brexit, is now taking HCPs from countries like Zimbabwe and Nepal, leaving their own populations with even worse healthcare and we are all happy with that.

Over 60 % of new starters in the NHS last year were from overseas, EU HCP's no longer come here because its a PIA to do so, not impossible but lot harder than working in another EU country

@jasflowers absolutely- we lived in Denmark for 20 months and many EU workers went to places like the Netherlands, Denmark, Eire , Sweden etc- where they can get by very well just with good English asa second language. They earn more, housing options are better (although Eire is challenging) and to be frank they aren't made to feel as unwelcome.

@jasflowers I have a desk in a business centre and a company here do visa processing and registering - big style- the face to face bit once they are here.

For the last year it is wall to wall- all from Africa, India, Pakistan, phillipines etc (the odd one from Hong Kong) and no it isn't all computer scientists or surgeons etc by a very long way . These are mainly families too- all will need housing, medical etc - a big difference to younger single EU people who come for a few years and often go back. These people are likely to stay . I don't have an issue with immigration- but I do have an issue when it was stated EU immigration was causing such big problems and we have simply replaced it with developing world immigration- and as a consequence we have now lost all the EU rights to live and work that we personally had- all incredibly pointless- even if you were looking at it purely from an immigration angle.

@Crikeyalmighty - exactly. If people were voting for less immigration and more resource on Brexit they are going to be very disappointed.

@bombastix I think it's dawned on some now- but they are too embarrassed to admit they were totally fooled and believed all the bullshit. My father in law being one and has admitted it.

Some of course still feel that way for varying reasons but it's nothing like the small majority it was-

Estimates and polls now have it about 63/37

or as has def happened, trades being able to charge what they like and cherry pick work, whether thats a benefit for anyone else is another matter.

Well, it's surely better if the salary is being spent in the UK rather than being sent back to Romania?

It's been great for my country, because not even the numbskull far-right party suggests us leaving anymore.

So the fact the rest of us can't get trades in and when we can they charge a fortune doesn't matter to you?
How does that help Wren Kitchens? or help build the homes we need? or keep rental properties in good order?

One or two assumptions there.

a) you don't know where EU nationals spent the money, the ones we knew had lives here and b) you don't know where a UK trade spends his or hers.

So the fact the rest of us can't get trades in and when we can they charge a fortune doesn't matter to you?

Did you actually care about (or even know about) the wages of HGV drivers stagnating for decades prior to Brexit as discussed above? Y'know the people that deliver everything you eat/buy, who collect your rubbish etc.

I can't get upset about people paying decent prices for decent labour in short supply. You'd pay it for legal/financial advice which is ubiquitous. You're just used to getting it for peanuts and pissed off you no longer can.

you don't know where EU nationals spent the money, the ones we knew had lives here and b) you don't know where a UK trade spends his or hers.

Well, I'm betting there's a much higher chance an EU national will send money out the country than a UK resident will.

@jasflowers or rather like my friends builder who just pissed of to Barbados for 3 weeks in the winter- leaving her without much notice and an unusable kitchen.

Pretty sure plenty of EU tradesmen were eating, drinking , going to the supermarket and buying stuff too- like the rest of us

Yes, they probably didn't send all the money back to Poland. 😂