To think society hates children?

[Orangeandgold]

During a crisis people tend to defend children and babies, but on a day to day basis when everything is “normal” I usually find and feel so much hatred towards children.

My DD picked this up quite young too. It is small subtle everyday conversations and actions.

I would have to remind an adult not to barge past a 5 year old when there is enough space on the pavement; or people that feel that they can comment or roll their eyes at you and be malicious because you have a buggy; or general comments in conversations about “all kids are brats/ those children/why would anyone have them.”; animals are so much more loving than children …

… and the comments go on!

If you don’t want children you don’t have to have them, but we were all kids once. AIBU to feel that society in general hates children and to get upset about it every now and then? Or am I just in a pessimistic bubble? Maybe it’s also the city, people have less tolerance? I just feel nobody really looks out for each other the way we would growing up - I would have neighbours on the look out as a child but now it’s different.

I can't say I see this in society at all. I don't have children (by choice) but I certainly don't hate them, for the most part I think they are gorgeous small humans. I always smile or wave if a small child smiles or says hello to me. I absolutely would not barge past a child.

As others have said, noisy, demanding children are not terribly appealing (even to those who adore them, I wouldn't think) however this does not equate to "hating children" as a whole.

@Orangeandgold

My DD picked this up quite young too. It is small subtle everyday conversations and actions

She picked up quite young that society in general hated children? That's odd, particularly as it isn't the case.

Yes, I agree with that.

I just think a 90 year old with a walking frame probably needs a seat more than a healthy 2 year old. A broken limb etc is going to be way worse for that 90 year old in terms of recovery.

Is someone barging past your five year old because you're taking up the whole pavement? I have noticed recently that people walking abreast of each other don't make space for someone coming the other way. I'm fed up with being expected to move into the road. As for the rest of it - I think people are fine with children but not as a parent is. And some behaviour restraint is needed in places like cafes.

Well, this 90 year old with a walking frame is new to the conversation, but anyone with a walking aid clearly needs a seat more than anyone else.

Just a minor pavement point. I run a lot around the streets and parks of a city and courtesy works both ways. I often have to jump into the road because of a family walking 5 abreast with a with buggies scooters don’t even pretend to make space or ask their children to move over. Im ok with that (apart from the danger factor) but it would be nice for some people to realise that just because they have a child doesn’t mean they take priority everywhere.

Not really. Very occasionally people get pissed off with my pram, but it’s usually when I’m trying to manoeuvre it through a tight space (and probably shouldn’t be, but sometimes I have no choice y’know?)

Overall, people are very kind to my children. My youngest gets a lot of fuss.

Whilst I think that taking up the whole pavement isn’t acceptable, I think barging past a five year old is a bit much! Although I’ve never seen someone badge past a five year old except for another child, so wonder if the OP has misinterpreted this…

Nobody likes entitled parents or badly behaved children, but honestly I never felt more cared for by random strangers than when I was pregnant or when my dc were small. I was always polite and my dc well behaved, which helped. The only time we were badly treated was by a group of pensioners on an outing, who were barging past us to try to jump queue to make sure they got a place on the increasingly limited transport back. My husband had to body block the pensioners to make sure I could get my buggy through.

Yeah, you’d think so but I’ve definitely seen kids push past people on crutches to get the last seat.

If this is true, it's very sad. it's certainly not my experience at all but obviously my experience is relatively limited to my environment.

As I said in my last post, I actually do agree that children are not being taught sufficient independence and the important skills they need (there's another thread on this right now with parents saying they wouldn't leave a 10 year old for 10 minute at home alone for example), but I have never seen this suggestion that children are not talked to or don't learn basic communication. Perhaps I am lucky.

No, I don't think society hates children. I think some parents don't get that society doesn't necessarily adore their offspring in the way they do. This is the root of the problem with entitled parents - they just can't believe you aren't besotted with whatever their children do, as they are.

I really don’t expect anybody to adore my children like I do. Never expected that for one minute. It would be weird if they did.

What I do expect is for people to mind their own business and leave me and my kids alone. Thankfully now that my children are all getting towards older primary aged, we don’t stand out to the haters as much. But when I had three under 5s, I did feel vulnerable sometimes. Some people are just so vicious and intolerant. Someone moaned on here about a mum reading a book to her toddler on the train 🤷🏼‍♀️ Enough said. I don’t expect you to adore my children, but I do expect you to let me get on with being a parent.

It doesn't really help when other people's reactions are along the lines of "Are you quite well?" when you do have a conversation (albeit perhaps onesided) with babies. I did get some smiles but also some terrible looks and comments. Less confident mothers and fathers would be embarrassed into silence.

Just this, great post.

Absolutely this! I’d actually be freaked out if some randomer was besotted with my kids? Who to wants that?

"I just think there are a metric fuckton of people who hate kids and younger mothers out there and actually go looking for it, enjoy having a good moan about them and at them even when they are doing absolutely nothing wrong, they just like a really good opportunity to have a good judge and a moan. They are likely generally unhappy people and like a good moan about everything, but anyone they perceive to be of lower status than them are the main targets."

100% agree with all this. I also think there are a lot of people out there who would be completely sympathetic to someone elderly who was behaving in a way that they would not tolerate a small child doing. Whether that's blocking a pavement, acting inappropriately, whatever.

Sadly I sort of agree with OP.

I've had numerous people barge into DS (7) when we've been in the city centre. When he was in a pram (6 m I think) we went to the Lake District and groups of adults absolutely refused to drop to single file or 2 abreast in order for us to pass them safely. We were forced into the road on a few occasions until we had enough and just stood stock still if people were trying to force their way past us. I was told I was selfish for taking up the path with the pram.

Our town centre though is much more child friendly. People will actually interact with DS instead of pushing him out the way.

As a rule, I find teenagers around here polite, pleasant, helpful. EXCEPT for this one issue. 4 of them walking abreast and it never occurs to them to move over for someone coming in the opposite direction. Drives me potty but I assume they simply weren't taught this by their parents. Perhaps they come from the families you're referring to?

I had a stand off with a teenage girl in a shopping centre a few months ago. I was coming up the stairs with heavy shopping, keeping to one side. She was coming down the stairs with nothing in her hands. It didn't even occur to me to move out of the way as it was clearly so much easier for her. She stopped and waited for ME to move out of her way. It was mind blowing. But I'm nearly 50 years old and quite frankly, I have more patience than a stroppy 14 year old.

I completely disagree.
If your child is a boy then wait until he's a teen and grown adults are suspicious of his presence - especially when he's hanging out with his friends.

And because you’d get accused of ‘performance parenting’ on here!
I always spoke to mine properly from babies and they had great speech development. I spoke as I would to anyone else, using long words and none of that baby talk. I think it’s so much better for their development. Problem is, other people are so judgemental and so involved in strangers business in a negative way.

But then it's not that long ago when pregnancy was thought of as quite shameful and not discussed, even if you were married. Certainly my mum felt she had to cover up and not proudly display her bump in the mid 1970s at work, and she was expected to leave her job and not return.

I think it's more likely when someone is sitting down somewhere. It may well be their only day off in the week or their only chance to enjoy a bit of leisure time and someone comes along with a child that may start shrieking at any moment for probably little to no reason. Some children of course are lovely. I have a theory that the shrieky ones aren't natural because in the last when humans lived near predators the shrieks would have attracted the predators and they'd be eaten. Today though they survive and grow up to be gobshites 😂

Exactly, and I really was just having a chat with them.

I do it now with my dog when I take her for a walk- I can't say as I get as many funny looks about that!

I’ll just add to the last bit of my post too.

I don’t expect you to adore my children, but I do expect you to wind your neck in and let me get on with being a parent without you projecting your niggles on to us.

I don't think it's just 'kids' who do that, to be fair. Lots of people either don't care or haven't been taught to care.

A few years back I was getting a long distance bus, there was me, a few other younger folk and lots of over 60's. I had a booked seat and was going the full length of the journey, as were a few others. There was also a group of elderly but clearly active ladies, who were only going part of the journey (conversation overheard regarding where they'd been and were going) and who had access to several other buses going to their location, further behind in the queue. I ended up helping a different older lady with her case, because the drivers don't, and I'll give you a clue what this group of ladies tried to do? That's right, push past me, the other lady, and several other people before them, to board first. I did point out that those with booked seats always get on first (especially those going the full trip as this is the only bus we can get), that there was a queue of people in front of them and they'd have to wait their turn like everyone else. Had they been frail/needed help then of course they'd have been let on first, but they clearly weren't.