To think society hates children?

[Orangeandgold]

During a crisis people tend to defend children and babies, but on a day to day basis when everything is “normal” I usually find and feel so much hatred towards children.

My DD picked this up quite young too. It is small subtle everyday conversations and actions.

I would have to remind an adult not to barge past a 5 year old when there is enough space on the pavement; or people that feel that they can comment or roll their eyes at you and be malicious because you have a buggy; or general comments in conversations about “all kids are brats/ those children/why would anyone have them.”; animals are so much more loving than children …

… and the comments go on!

If you don’t want children you don’t have to have them, but we were all kids once. AIBU to feel that society in general hates children and to get upset about it every now and then? Or am I just in a pessimistic bubble? Maybe it’s also the city, people have less tolerance? I just feel nobody really looks out for each other the way we would growing up - I would have neighbours on the look out as a child but now it’s different.

I think there’s a bit of a weird mix. On the one hand there seems to be so much more available for children, and so much disruptive behaviour tolerated that simply wouldn’t have been when I was a child.

On the other hand, some people seem to dislike children being around at all. I was in a cafe for breakfast with a friend and her young child on Saturday and the people on the next table were definitely not happy the child was there - lots of muttering about how they weren’t expecting children and how it was more like a playground. Kid was just sitting at the table quietly drawing and playing with small non-noisy toys in between chatting to me and his mother.

From mumsnet I've gathered there are some people who don't want children everywhere they go and others who don't want dogs everywhere they go.

I have a seven year old who is very well behaved now. He wasn't at the age of three (we had terrible threes instead of terrible twos) I did the best I could in public. Don't care if people judged.

You are interpreting it one way, I am reading it another way.
Don't tell us what 'we all know', based on your interpretation.

I think going by the comments your getting you are right.

People want to stay young and youthful for longer delaying adulthood for as long as possible, so that includes not having or liking children.

Men and women in their 40s and 50s revolving their life around music gigs and bars as if they are still teenagers at university. Adulthood has lost it's way and the attitude towards children reflects that, mostly because it does not match up to the lifestyle that a lot of people are choosing!

No, I don't think society hates children. I think some parents don't get that society doesn't necessarily adore their offspring in the way they do. This is the root of the problem with entitled parents - they just can't believe you aren't besotted with whatever their children do, as they are.

I don't like children because they're children - they're people and I might or might not like them as individuals. Being small doesn't make them automatically delightful to me, personally.

Parents who don't 'house train' their children for social situations are responsible for making them unpopular with other adults and society in general, though.

I was once with an elderly friend (nearly 80, but youthful and fashionably dressed), strap hanging on the tube. Parents with 4 children between 2 and 10 got on and like us, were waiting for a seat (but in a much more entitled way!!). When the seats directly behind us became free, my friend and I sat down, only to become the focus of tutting and loud critical remarks from the parents, who clearly thought their children had more right to the seats. The 2 year old should have sat on a knee and the others were robust kids who were more able to stand than me or my elderly friend. (I made my children stand up for people on public transport - they travel free and were young and full of energy!) We are creating monsters.

Okay, stay blinkered! 🙄

The hate mainly comes from people who have got grown up children/ teenage children. It’s people whose lives have moved on from having babies/toddlers/pre schoolers and primary aged children. They think that because they’ve done all that, it gives them the green light to be an arsehole towards other people’s young children and their parents. It’s all me me me…

@CoffeeCantata interesting perception of seats, I honestly do think children under a certain age are as entitled to sit down as older folk - mainly due to balance and/or strength issues.

If you think it's bad today, you should have had small children in the 1980s.

I’m not sure where you’re living but that sounds horrendous. I can’t believe since having my first child how lovely people are towards them. I mean people are even nicer to me! Especially with small children. But maybe it’s got to do with where in the world you are, or maybe big cities are quite different. Why would anyone be an asshole to a 5 year old though 😭

I have a teenager but definitely don't 'hate' children - I have already explained my feelings up above in more detail though, so won't go into that again.

How ironic.

I have never experienced this at all.

If an old, frail person falls over they’re likely to be much more badly injured than a small child, though.

Now I'm late forties and my DDs are late/mid teens I literally NEVER see or notice small children hardly ever, not in restaurants or pubs or anywhere else, our paths either just don't cross or they are well-behaved and I don't notice.

I just think there are a metric fuckton of people who hate kids and younger mothers out there and actually go looking for it, enjoy having a good moan about them and at them even when they are doing absolutely nothing wrong, they just like a really good opportunity to have a good judge and a moan. They are likely generally unhappy people and like a good moan about everything, but anyone they perceive to be of lower status than them are the main targets.

Now actually come to think of it the only place I see disdain or negative comments about “offspring” or “sprogs” is mumsnet! 😂

Not in my experience. In fact I'd say people tend to be much nicer to me when I'm with DS!

Well that’s a square on the childfree bingo card crossed off right there…..

@MalagaNights Your list is ridiculous

High levels of family breakdown are devastating for children, but adults emotional wants are often placed above the stability children need.
Mmm, so you're saying that bad relationships should be sucked up and that is better for the children? Really?

Step family situations are often desperately difficult for children. We pretend that isn't the case as it makes adults feel bad.
Nope. I think it's pretty clear that this can be difficult. Good parents do their best to manage this. Unfortunately, on MN, we're often seeing the less good parents/step parents so you might be getting a skewed version here.

Children don't get the free outdoor play opportunities they need because of how we structure life.
I actually agree with this in that I think there's way too much paranoia about children being left alone/allowed any independence. it's not good for them.

Children are given too much access to technology which negatively impacts development and mental health.
Possibly true in some cases, yes. But at the same time, there's a lot of talk about this, lots of judgement of parents who overuse technology. Also, our children are growing up in a tech world - we need to teach them to navigate it safely in the same way we teach them to cross roads safely and so on.

Children are experiencing a huge mental health crisis and it's not regarded as a national crisis we need to address.
I don't know, I hear about this issue a lot. DS' school has put on extra support for children's MH post Covid. I suspect we're not getting enough support, but then that's true of practically every social need in this country from care for pensioners, to the NHS to children.

School is miserable experience of pressure and hoop jumping for many children.
Partially true. I think schools are starting to learn how to be more inclusive. And it probably varies pretty massively between schools and areas.

We label children as disordered when in many cases it's the environment creating their issues.
I don't even know what this means. My DS has ADHD. It's not environmentally caused. It doesn't mean he's disabled, but I does mean that the regular environment is hard for him. this is true. So we're working on ways to support him.

We sacrificed children's needs during covid for the adults with devastating impact.
Yes. But I'd argue this is a huge government issue and our best solution here is to get the tories out as soon as we can.

We put babies into institutional care and prioritise returning to work even though we know this isn't best for them.
You make nursery and childminders and nannies sound like the workhouse. FFS. We don't "know this isn't best for them" at all. For a start, having a home, food, clothing, safety is pretty damn important. Having two parents who are emotionally and intellectually fulfilled is important. Good childcare is absolutely fine and you're talking rubbish.

We don't talk about these things as it makes the adults feel bad.
I feel I can't open a newspaper or get into a conversation with another person without some of these issues coming up.

Possibly, not necessarily, however unless the train was full of toddlers/those with a disability/frailty/over a certain age there was a large number of people who could have stood to let all the more vulnerable people sit?

HorribleHisTories15 · Today 09:37

Agree @NotLactoseFree with 'I always make way for prams - I know how awkward and difficult they can be to move - but there's always that one parent with a pram who seems to think they're Moses parting the sea and that the rest of us should drop to our knees to genuflect as the saviour comes past.' That parent usually has the latest BMW of the pram world and believes that they are the embodiment of mother. They bring the said mortgaged buggy to unsuitable places like museums with steps and grumble about having to make their nearly A level ready child walk. Or they bring the said Buggy into the local Costas and proceed to make everyone else move tables and chairs so that they can then proceed to set up the IPad for the child and then spend a considerable amount of time on their phone ignoring the child

This is absolute bollocks. So many posts on here are just proving the OPs point. People just assume kids are going to be awful and so they get preemptively hostile.

I don't hate children.

I do get very annoyed when children are on scooters on pavements and they either run into me or I have to dodge them. I got an awful bruise this summer thanks to one.

I also get annoyed when parents take up the entire breadth of the path with buggies.

As someone who doesn't have children, and lives in a city, I would say I experience the opposite of you - in my experience society is obsessed with children, with accommodating children's needs, with making everything child-friendly. Not saying that's a bad thing, but it's very noticeable to me.

@NotLactoseFree Have you spent much time in schools recently? There’s a massive speech and language crisis facing our youngest children because parents and care-givers are not engaging with them sufficiently in the baby and preschool years - busy lifestyles and excessive use of screens etc means that huge numbers of children are starting school unable to communicate effectively. For whatever reason many parents don’t spend time explaining things, describing things, teaching skills like the give and take of conversation etc.

And as both a teacher and a parent, no, I don’t think many people chat to their kids as much as they could When I’m out and about I often hear a lot of direct instruction/direction (‘Hurry up, we’re late! Leave that alone! Stop at the road! Eat your dinner before it gets cold!’) and very little in the way of genuine two-way conversation about what’s going on in the immediate environment, what everyone’s day has been like, what’s going on on the world etc.

I’m a strong believer that we should engage with and chat to our children as individuals, not just talk down to them as a distinct group we call ‘kids’.

On the contrary....as I've aged (heading in the direction of OAP years) I appear to be invisible to some of the population including pram users.