To think society hates children?

[Orangeandgold]

During a crisis people tend to defend children and babies, but on a day to day basis when everything is “normal” I usually find and feel so much hatred towards children.

My DD picked this up quite young too. It is small subtle everyday conversations and actions.

I would have to remind an adult not to barge past a 5 year old when there is enough space on the pavement; or people that feel that they can comment or roll their eyes at you and be malicious because you have a buggy; or general comments in conversations about “all kids are brats/ those children/why would anyone have them.”; animals are so much more loving than children …

… and the comments go on!

If you don’t want children you don’t have to have them, but we were all kids once. AIBU to feel that society in general hates children and to get upset about it every now and then? Or am I just in a pessimistic bubble? Maybe it’s also the city, people have less tolerance? I just feel nobody really looks out for each other the way we would growing up - I would have neighbours on the look out as a child but now it’s different.

The opposite. Before I had children, I didn’t really interact with strangers. Now when out with our toddler, so many people say hi, strangers play peekaboo on the bus, waiting stuff make a fuss when we go out.

In my experience most people are very friendly towards children, they get a lot of positive attention from adults. That is so long as they aren't crying or throwing a tantrum (and even the most well bought up children will do that from time to time)

It depends, I don't see much dislike towards well behaved nice children - I've seen some dislike towards violent / badly behaved children, but mainly when it's teenagers rather than 5 year olds!

I think this is pretty demonstrably untrue in the UK in 2023, even if it is a quirk of voter demographics.

And the different parenting styles often became evident by the way some children responded to correction, being told no, being encouraged and praised etc.

I was waiting my turn at parents evening a while ago. The parent who was going in before me had her 2 children with her and was struggling to get them to behave. She had to go in without them and they were told by her, and the teacher, to wait outside. 10 seconds later, they were attempting to secretly open the classroom door in order to listen in. I said, "Stop that." to them. The boy looked at me and said, "You're not my mum, you can't tell me what to do". I just said, "well, if you open the door Mrs P is going to come out here and tell you off so.... " and as I said that, the teacher did open the door to see what was happening. This child stared at me for the next 10 minutes in a very disconcerting way.

I think broadly, we're supportive of children in this country. But there is less tolerance for badly behaved or entitled families, of which there are many. SIL thinks it's cute when DN goes up to other families and wants to talk to them, sit with them, play with them. I think it's astonishingly rude and entitled to assume random strangers want to engage with her child for lengthy periods of time while they're just trying to enjoy an ice cream.

blacksax · Today 09:20

I would have to remind an adult not to barge past a 5 year old

There you go. That's the issue right there. It is rude and incosiderate to not move your child aside to let someone pass.

When I was younger, children were kept under control and people made sure that kids didn't get in the way of others. It was considered polite to do so. Not any more it seems. "Mind out of the way" seems to be a sentence that has fallen into disuse, more's the pity

The OP said there was room to pass. This attitude that children should be "kept under control" what does this even mean? Kids have as much right as you to walk on the pavement, if they're in your way (which apparently this one wasn't but who knows) then say excuse me. Don't just shove past them. Would you do it to an 80 year old? They walk slow as well.

I'd say society is even less tolerant of autistic adults.
The thing is that it is an ok/normal human reaction to feel annoyed/irritated by certain behaviours/actions (or lack of) in other people (eg autistic, SEN etc), however we have to remember that they are not doing it to irritate us, they are often doing it to cope/function in this world!

@sollenwir very true. Frustrating though how the person with the disability is the one who has to change and try to fit in. Surely it would be much easier the other way round

Exactly this

I think we as a society don't prioritise children.
We don't put children's needs first:

High levels of family breakdown are devastating for children, but adults emotional wants are often placed above the stability children need.
Step family situations are often desperately difficult for children. We pretend that isn't the case as it makes adults feel bad.
Children don't get the free outdoor play opportunities they need because of how we structure life.
Children are given too much access to technology which negatively impacts development and mental health.
Children are experiencing a huge mental health crisis and it's not regarded as a national crisis we need to address.
School is miserable experience of pressure and hoop jumping for many children.
We label children as disordered when in many cases it's the environment creating their issues.
We sacrificed children's needs during covid for the adults with devastating impact.
We put babies into institutional care and prioritise returning to work even though we know this isn't best for them.
We don't talk about these things as it makes the adults feel bad.

I don't think we hate children but I think as a society we've lost our way in remembering that adults are supposed to put children's needs first not the other way around.

Or autistic adults. There’s a theme here, but I’m not sure it’s age-related.

People hate everyone and everything, we are just negative creatures. Look how many y people hate dogs on mumsnet ( to address your comment about those who say animals are better). My husband is a cyclist and thr amount of hate he gets for just commuting to work on a bike is ridiculous, like people want him to crash and die. I don't think kids get the worst of it but there will be some and that's quite often due to the parents not managing them and thinking they take priority over everyone else.

Oh this old trope again about European kids 🙄

I used to work in an attraction in London and everyone was on high alert when the French groups came in. The kids would steal from the shop and cafe, break stuff and run off. I recall one group having to be reprimanded by their teacher very loudly for their behaviour and another situation when a French teacher unburdened to me how stressful it was taking them away! Never had such issues with the British kids.
Kids are all the same. My husband has Spanish family and the children we’ve met behave the same way as ours do; age appropriately.

Also, some of the comments on here about how children should basically be seen and not heard are archaic. Some of you do. It like kids and it shows. Kids are human beings learning to be a part of the world. Sometimes they’re loud and excitable. Yes it’s up to parents to manage that and ensure that their behaviour is suitable to the surroundings, but honestly saying things like ‘kids must be kept under control’ is gross to me. And no, I no longer and small children and no, I never had kids who were a nightmare. But I do understand when children are being children and don’t expect them to be perfect little angels all the time who tow the line, then wonder why they grow up into adults who can’t stand up for themselves.

We moved to a South European country recently, where children are completely overindulged and not particularly well-behaved either and the contrast with the UK is astonishing.

We live in a rather posh development with quite a few older residents - there are no signs about 'no ball games' I would have expected to see in England in a similar setting. Children run around the communal garden, play football on the grass and jump into a pool during the summer - some are nicer than others, some are louder than others - and no one tells them off.

Children are respectful of adults in the sense they would move out of the way if need be, but they are not self-consciously waiting to be told off. There is no intergenerational animosity.

It is lovely to see, though a bit chaotic.

@UsernameCreater there ARE situations where 'kids need to be kept under control' though, near busy roads, in cafes where there are hot drinks, in shops where running around creates a hazard, and so on. I don't see the issue with that sort of statement. It's not saying we need to tie them up and/or gag them, simply to exercise common sense in terms of safety of them and others.

Yes, when DDs were very small there was a certain degree of animosity and grumpiness towards babies and toddlers and also their mothers, particularly if they think you are a single mum or have babies by different fathers- it doesn't happen so much when both parents are there. I think bullies see them as an easy target. In my case they were wrong, but I still got things like:

• people tutting and shaking their heads when I was talking to DDs when they were babies in the supermarket and outdoors, and no, I was not "loud parenting" but just having a chat
• when I met up with friends, other mums with babies, comments from old men about good for nothing feckless single mums (FWIW we were all married and in our 30s)
• an older women absolutely bollocking me for driving to school with DD1 (4) and baby DD2 after a really rough night up with both of them
• "Should you be eating that?" comments when I was pregnant and general nosiness from strangers
• Wide-eyed expressions and people asking "Are they both from the same dad?" about DD1 and DD2 - DD1 is small and dark, DD2 is tall and blonde. Even more so when I was minding DN who is black and the same age as DD2 - must have fried their tiny minds, that one.
• People tutting and frowning when we sat near them in a restaurant, expecting the kids to be badly behaved (they weren't, and if they were wriggly we'd take them outside for a run around)
• Loads of unwanted advice
• Staring and tutting about breastfeeding
• Staring and tutting about bottle feeding

I really never felt so judged and disliked in my life, but you do quickly develop a thick skin about it.

Way to prove the OPs point. You're simply assuming her child is noisy and disruptive, and you're implying that children should be seen and not heard.

Agree @NotLactoseFree with 'I always make way for prams - I know how awkward and difficult they can be to move - but there's always that one parent with a pram who seems to think they're Moses parting the sea and that the rest of us should drop to our knees to genuflect as the saviour comes past.' That parent usually has the latest BMW of the pram world and believes that they are the embodiment of mother. They bring the said mortgaged buggy to unsuitable places like museums with steps and grumble about having to make their nearly A level ready child walk. Or they bring the said Buggy into the local Costas and proceed to make everyone else move tables and chairs so that they can then proceed to set up the IPad for the child and then spend a considerable amount of time on their phone ignoring the child.

Did you miss the 'maybe' in @Shoxfordian's reply?

I don’t notice most children. I do see hatred towards parents with badly behaved children which is fair

Of course, but that’s not what the previous poster was saying. They said back in their day children were kept under control. That’s not the same thing and we all know it.

Exactly. This is the very definition of prejudice. Pre-judging! Exactly what happened to us in restaurants.

I think it often depends where you are. I grew up in the 80s and dinner out at Wimpys was a big treat for a birthday or other special occasion. Now, eating out is less of a treat and seems to be a lot more commonplace. I have a few friends who take their kids to the pub for dinner regularly. I think people are justified in not wanting children in some spaces, in the same way that I wouldn't want a load of 18 year olds sitting on the swings in a park, I don't like to see loads of kids in a pub if I am on a night out. Not because I hate children, just because I can appreciate child-free spaces.

Agree with every last word @MalagaNights .

Cant edit but wanted to add, I also often get stopped in the street by people wanting to chat about the kids, smiled at, people talking to me in cafes, playing peekaboo with the youngest. We have a local cafe which always treats the kids, the owner has cuddles with them. I’ve found people so friendly since having kids and really don’t recognise what you are describing.