To think society hates children?

[Orangeandgold]

During a crisis people tend to defend children and babies, but on a day to day basis when everything is “normal” I usually find and feel so much hatred towards children.

My DD picked this up quite young too. It is small subtle everyday conversations and actions.

I would have to remind an adult not to barge past a 5 year old when there is enough space on the pavement; or people that feel that they can comment or roll their eyes at you and be malicious because you have a buggy; or general comments in conversations about “all kids are brats/ those children/why would anyone have them.”; animals are so much more loving than children …

… and the comments go on!

If you don’t want children you don’t have to have them, but we were all kids once. AIBU to feel that society in general hates children and to get upset about it every now and then? Or am I just in a pessimistic bubble? Maybe it’s also the city, people have less tolerance? I just feel nobody really looks out for each other the way we would growing up - I would have neighbours on the look out as a child but now it’s different.

I walk with a stick and very often people won’t move over for me and it is hard to move sideways or change direction quickly with a stick. Also, you need more space because you have half a width of a person by the side of you. People get very irritated when I tell them I can’t get through. There is a lack of awareness of the difficulties of people using mobility aids in general I find.

But is losing a year as bad when you have another 70 left to live?

Are you seriously suggesting that if when covid emerged it was noted that it disproportionately affected children that people would have been less bothered? Behave. Tonnes of people had the attitude ah well old people are going to die soon anyway who really cares. Society generally on a population level values children more highly than others when it comes to risk of harm, when children are injured in war for example people are (rightly) horrified, there's nothing to suggest this would be different if a novel virus was wiping children out at a wild rate or hospitalising them. There's also nothing to suggest that the rate of old people thinking screw it I'm doing as I please anyway would be proportionately higher than the rate of those who did just that during covid.

CaramacFiend · Today 09:08

theadultsaretalking · Today 09:04

Interestingly, kids were expected to put their lives on hold during COVID-19 to protect those, who, if tables were reversed, would have happily locked them inside while continuing to live their lives as normal.

If COVID was really bad for the children, I don't think for one second that life would have stopped to the extent that it did.
Show quote history
But is losing a year as bad when you have another 70 left to live?
I hope this is a joke! You may as well say - they've lived 80 years. Who cares if they do t have any more

Of course 5 year olds and older have times they are disruptive, noisy or do things that are ill advised that's not an issue the issue is the parents who ignore it or worse say to the public things like what's your problem

Everyone was asked to do that. I didn’t see another human being for months because of the way the bubble system failed people living alone. Others had to stop working but received no sustenance because they weren’t eligible for furlough. Even those who were working as normal had to put their plans for weddings, holidays, trips, fertility treatments, medical treatments, seeing beloved friends and family in far off places - life - on hold.

And it wasn’t to “save the elderly”, so much as to save the NHS. Politicians were happy to let it rip through the population (“let the bodies pile up”) until they realised it would cause the NHS to fail. Clearly we shouldn’t have been in a position where the NHS was that fragile, but that was the rationale for lockdowns and closed schools.

I don’t doubt that kids had it particularly tough due to their age and vulnerability (and kids in deprived households especially). But I strongly dislike this revisionist history that’s so prevalent now, that kids are the only ones who suffered and that they sacrificed their livelihoods for superfluous selfish old people who hate them and would have delighted in putting them in solitary confinement had they only had the chance.

It was not a year, first of all. Second of all, some children have still not caught up on what they missed both developmentally and educationally.

I am not being a revisionist and not disputing that everyone was affected - the whole thing was a mess.

What I am saying is in response to people who accused parents of expecting others to care about their 'little darlings'. Little darlings took it on the chin massively for the benefit of society.

That's a very simplistic view because significant things happen in the earlier years, right through from baby/toddler early socialisation to those starting a new school to those sitting exams, never mind those children who are vulnerable or abused in home environments.

OK, but if I said people should care about the single people I know because of our specific sacrifices for the benefit of society, I'd rightly expect them to look at me askance.

People should care about the welfare of children - not because of what children sacrificed or didn't during COVID, but because they're vulnerable and developing and will become the adults of our future. I don't think it's horrid or weird or wrong to not particularly care about someone else's individual children - and expecting people to because of transactional stuff like COVID sacrifices is a bit weird in my book.

I agree that the little darlings stuff is shit though.

@theadultsaretalking

What I am saying is in response to people who accused parents of expecting others to care about their 'little darlings'. Little darlings took it on the chin massively for the benefit of society.

All of society took on the chin for the benefit of everyone. Not just children, and nor have their disadvantages been disproportionate to those of other groups that I'm aware of. They have the next 80 years or so to overcome any issues, I suppose?

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2022/may/18/younger-children-most-affected-by-covid-lockdowns-new-research-finds

But sorry, I have derailed the thread a bit!

I actually disagree with PP that children had it no tougher than anyone else - I think they did have it particularly tough; Younger kids had it particularly tough because it took place whilst they were still developing and there will be knock on consequences for speech, social development etc. for some time. That's not the case for other age groups.

Older kids had it particularly tough because it took place during their exam prep and exam years, and there will be knock on consequences for further study and ongoing social development there too.

Adults were generally better equipped to cope with what was happening - both because of higher levels of understanding but also more years of life experience.

There are outliers - kids who thrived in lockdown and adults (like me) who have particular vulnerabilities who are still getting over what happened. But speaking generally, I do think kids had a particularly tough time.

(I just don't agree with the narrative that seems so prevalent now that they were the only ones who suffered.)

@Stylishnewmama I agree it’s wrong to judge the parents, but some people just get really stressed/uncomfortable/even fearful around crying children. As a parent you’re obviously frantic to stop the child crying but as someone with any empathy, sensory issues or similar you will also find it really difficult to cope with and be powerless to help (particularly in places like church or a plane where there will be constraints on you being able to move away). Also a frazzled parent might interpret a look of fear/upset, even just irritation as a “dirty look”, it’s possible to be irritated by something without judging the person(s) responsible.

If I'm pushing a pram with my 4 month old baby in then yes, I expect you to walk in the road or step onto the grassy verge if the pavement is too narrow. There have been many times where 2 adults are walking towards me side by side and won't walk in single file. They'll give me a dirty look because I don't step into the road. I'm not putting my baby in danger and also it's harder to manoeuvre a pram than for an adult to step aside.

I find teenagers and dog walkers (any age) the most considerate as they step aside. I've noticed that you've written numerous posts here and you sound very bitter.

@Stylishnewmama To be fair, that poster said "two buggies", not one. It's obnoxious to expect someone to walk in the road because you don't want to break conversation for 10 seconds to go in single file. I can see why you wouldn't want to put your buggy on the road, but that wasn't what that poster was suggesting should be done.

I agree. I have nothing at all against children or parents - I have been both. But I am disabled and it is bloody amazing how many entitled people - including, and very often parents, walking with 2 or even three buggies across the pavement -expect me to put myself in danger by moving onto the road.

As has been pointed out, the original poster was talking about two women, two prams, and neither being willing to move.

Ditto, on the pavement. I absolutely would give way to a woman with a pram every time. BUT, I'm also going to get annoyed if she's strolling along in the middle of the pavement so that no one can get past without getting on the road, rather than keeping to one side when there is space. Similarly in supermarkets - 99% of people in supermarkets with a pram are considerate and no problem and the rest of us quite happily give way to them as necessary. But there's always that one person who causes chaos because they can't stay on one side of the aisle, preventing anyone from getting past in either direction while they're browsing the cheese or whatever.

@Yippet..

You must be exhausted, I'd leave the conversation now.
Not sure how many times it needs to be stated to @Stylishnewmama that I was referring to TWO PEOPLE WALKING SIDE BY SIDE but reading her replies I can see that they think it's acceptable that TWO friends chatting shouldn't have to break step for a few seconds so someone can pass safely by instead of having to go into the road.

God forbid it be a busy road, what if you can't step out into it, would you get a buggy pushed at you as they refuse to move, would you stand face to face with buggy pusher waiting for a break in the traffic, or would buggy pusher expect the traffic to come to a halt for you so you can toddle around buggy pusher.

I only needed one person to correct me that @Yippet meant 2 prams side by side rather than 2 occasions with 1 pram. I never said it was OK for two people to walk side by side. I even mentioned that I dislike it when anyone refuses to walk in single file, pram or no pram. I'm hardly going to step into the road with my baby just because two adults don't want to walk in single file.

Never once experienced any of this I get so much attention when I have my kids with me. Everyone loves them. Maybe you should think about why people don’t like yours 🥴

That's not what you said though, you said people wouldn't have reacted to the same extent had children been more adversely affected which isn't the case. Disagreeing with lockdowns and recognising the effects of is different.

The poster I replied to was the one that stated that had children been more adversely affected, people wouldn't have reacted to the same extent.

I disagreed with that, because UK Government policy was to allow it to rip through the population ("let the bodies pile up") until they realised that this would cause the collapse of the NHS. That was why we went into lockdown. I absolutely believe that that would have been the same had children been more affected than they were, because it was never about prioritising the elderly. It was about protecting the NHS from too many people dying. Including - had children been more affected - children.

I don't really understand your comment to me.

What a ridiculous statement!!
Says it all really about how some people view kids lives!
And yes my kid has a transplant so to be petty yes every year does count.