People now dumping bull breed puppies, what can be done?

[NmeChngeFail]

Just seen this on local FB and I'm sure this isn't the only case.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/391520164531031/permalink/2023633937986304/

What can be done to stop things like this happening or is it inevitable with the recent ban? I'm not even sure if they are the banned breed

Following on from what another poster said it might be a good idea to ban people listing on places like Gumtree. No reputable breeder, in my experience, would sell through those places anyway.

Even if there is an influx of yobs buying chihuahuas they don't cause much damage if they attack so they aren't much to worry about! One boot to it and you'd likely kill it. That isn't the case with an XL Bully.

My post above was in reply to this. It didn't quote the first time.

So everyone saying XL bullies should be put down, fair enough. What about the thousands of cases where a dog is going to meet the measurements of an XL bully but not actually be one?

There's are an awful lot of dogs meeting this criteria on my dog walking routes, there a couple of Staffy/ Boxer mixes which meet the guidelines. A Lurcher/Staffy cross. A Bullmastiff/Labrador cross. Again none of these a banned breed and all friendly but now meet a made up selection of guidelines. What should happen to these dogs?

Should rescue centres no longer be allowed to home mix breeds such as Staffy/labradors, should these owners have to live within these restrictions?

I understand the importance of good breed selection in dogs (I have Rottweilers) and agree a lot of terrible dogs have no doubt been produced just so they could charge £5,000 for a "blue merle XL bully"

But I really think banning a breed is not going to work status dogs have always been a thing
It was the Doberman in the 80, the Rottweiler in the 90's.

It's not difficult for low life scum to mass produce any breed of dog regardless of temperament or health. A crack down on breeding needs to happen for all dogs, look at the French bulldog, the last must have. They have been mass produced and now have endless health problems. Knee jerk legislation will not fix the dog problem it will just move to the next thing until something is done to stop the endless cycle.

If in doubt, wipe it out

@pawsandponies imo if they meet the criteria to fall under the ban they should be treated the same, if a cross breed comes out looking like one side it's going to act like it too.
There are friendly XL bullies but the trouble is you don't know until they snap. A labrador x bullmastiff, boxer x staffy (if it managed to get as freakishly huge as an XL somehow) and a 1/2 or more bull lurcher are all dogs that have the propensity to do alot of damage. Especially bull lurchers, the half cross or more dogs are terrifying, and the bull in them isn't a docile staffy or they'd be useless at the purpose they're bred for.

@mapleriver

You do realise it's a Staffordshire BULL terrier don't you.

It's simply incorrect to judge based on that fact the purpose of most breeds of dog were to hunt and kill various game/ predators.

An Irish wolfhound was bred to kill wolves
A Rhodesian ridgeback was bred to kill lions
A Jack Russell was bred to kill rats
A foxhound was bred to kill foxes.
A great Pyrenees was bred to protect livestock from predators, there was recently a story of a female killing 8 single handed to defend her sheep.

Do you believe that all canines which are in fact predatory creatures are inherently evil because they do the jobs they were instinctively bred to do?

It's not true that because a dog was bred to kill/ protect/ guard that means they are aggressive.

This shows a very shortsighted an uneducated view of all dogs.

So do you believe that all large dogs be destroyed such as boxers not just XL bullies?

If vets can't keep up with the euthanasia appointments, the abattoir workers can do it.
And if you're upset about that, consider how many cows, pigs and sheep those abattoir working routinely slaughter, just to feed these dogs/other dogs/cats. Or indeed YOU

Abattoir workers are not emotionless robots who kill animals for fun.
I would imagine there would be an uproar if they suddenly had to kill dogs. Many of them would have dogs at home.

They are used to killing. Cows, pigs, sheep, dogs. All the same, really, when it comes to slaughtering them.

Isn't the point that there's a difference between the XL bully dog, compared with other dogs, in that once it attacks there's a real difficulty in removing it from its target because of the powerful jaws. Apparently near strangulation is the only thing that will work.

Are other breeds as problematic?

No abattoir kills dogs in the UK, so no, they wont be used to killing them.

The abuse of bull breeds (litters of golden retrievers, etc aren’t dumped like this) is another reason for a ban. I know some are lovingly cared for, but too many aren’t with use in fighting at the extreme.

Bull breeds in general, it is what they were bred to do. Tenacity plus power. Retrievers retrieve, pointers point, herders herd. There is a dangerous misconception that breeds originally bred to fight will suddenly turn into easy family pets.

I've met loads of lovely staffies though, and they tend to be much less snappy than most other small dogs.

And pugs are hardly vicious.

@Growingupinthe80s

It's not a misconception though these dogs were not ever bred to attack humans, wouldn't have been very good sport for them to start ripping the audience apart.

For example a police dog is genetically disposed and trained to bite the person running away under a certain set of conditions with a certain procedure. they don't just start chomping on kids in the park.

The problem with any such thing is that bad breeding/ lack of correct diet/ incorrect handling/ lack of care. can result in problems occurring.

Unscrupulous breeders bred any old bitch to any old dog to get "fashionable colours" or "big rope" bulldog. That met with irresponsible owners means this bullshit occurs.

Next month everyone putting there XL bully down for £200 at the vets will just go buy a Cane Corso or "insert any large breed dog" so then what will happen is the same shitty breeders will just go do the same thing to them.

Meanwhile Sue down the road who has dutifully muzzle trained her really friendly mix breed she got from dogs trust three years ago and is worried how she will afford third party insurance has never been and will never be the problem.

But for some reason people on mumsnet seem to be a place of people who really hate dogs.

I'm not suggesting it's okay to have an out of control aggressive dog but charge people for doing so, with massive fines/ and or prison sentences. Don't just make life really difficult for the law abiders while the people who do not give a shit will continue to abuse animals.

PTS.

put them to sleep (the owners and the dogs)

Honestly, I am and remain very skeptical of arguments that basically go “There’s no point having any kind of law against XYZ because there are people who will break the law!!!”

I think this kind of argument is known as the “Cheems mindset,” and it’s always been really popular in the UK and has been repeatedly used to try and block all kinds of laws across the years (including things like drink driving laws etc.).

My experience is that making things illegal usually at least reduces the level of said undesirable behavior, not least because it sends out signals that the behavior in question is not acceptable.

Thanks, he's a good lad. Here's a picture of him. He's a simple soul, very sweet and willing once he got over his fear. Also it must be said that our existing dog has been an absolute star, she's very clever and maternal and basically treats him like a big puppy (although he is twice her size!).

I really think the only answer is to regulate breeding. Of all breeds. Require a license and inspections and certification, and issue hefty very fines for breaking the law. Basically make it an unnattractive proposition for amateurs to breed dogs. Right now its far too easy for people to see breeding their dog as a quick way to make a buck. Our girl's breeder wasn't great either to be honest (we got her third hand). She wasn't abused or anything, she was walked and fed and given medical attention when she needed it, but it was very much a business operation with a few high-value breeds on the go and too many dogs in one house.

Just put them down! Dog shelters should not be ‘fully funded’

As I say... who is to 'just put them down'... you offering?

Theres a big ole disconnect going on here between the 'destroy them all' brigade who seem to want this for the safety and good of humans... but then toss aside the very humans who will have to do this and will suffer as a result.

Tell me which dog shelters are fully funded, what are you on about? BTW, many dog shelters are also the contracted stray pound for your local authority. So if you want to stop that, great... the police will surely have the funding and resources to return to managing and dealing with strays right, thats a great use of police resources.

I'm a massive dog lover but I am really uncomfortable with anyone owning any large powerful breed in a normal domestic setting. I get they're beautiful dogs that can be fantastically trained but the risks are just too great.

I know one family with two xl bullies, several small children, one with significant physical and learning disabilities. The dad has taken off leaving the mum with dogs she can't control. It's going to end very badly.

They’ll have to be PTS along with the probably tens of thousands of other XL bully types that will be dumped, surrendered, or seized over the coming months but there is much worse fate for a dog than euthanasia.

Backyard breeders will move on to a different breed - an acquaintance of mine has made a killing breeding bullies over the last 5 years and has already moved over to Cane Corsos to get around the legislation. I’d put money on them being the next problem dog.

People can stop being greedy and using breeding animals to make money. Other people can stop being ridiculous and paying thousands of pounds for dogs Both of those things will help.