to expect dd to tolerate her brothers playing while she's trying to sleep?

[Mastmw7g]

My 10 year old likes to sleep late, but her brothers wake up early and play in the mornings. They make noise when they play. I think it's a good thing because they're spending time together and not on screens. But dd keeps getting upset that they wake her up. Then she comes out of her room and it starts a fight and dh gets upset because that wakes him up and he also likes to sleep late.

Absolutely! I think some of those extolling the virtues of being an early riser assume those of us who aren’t still go to bed at the same time as them. I certainly don’t! I’m very rarely in bed before midnight - I just wouldn’t be tired otherwise.

And if you go to bed later, you will wake up leater. Naturally.

could you please explain what you are trying to say?

I haven’t read the FT but I think 8 o’clock on the weekend is a lie in. I’ve got 2 boys and 2 girls who share bedrooms. My boys are 13 and 7 and girls are 11 and 5. The older 2 do like to have a lie in on the weekends but the 2 youngest are often awake anytime from 5:30 on the weekends and will often go between each of the bedrooms either playing with toys or playing on iPads together. If they happen to disturb the older ones then there’s never any drama over it. With multiple children in the house unfortunately you can’t keep everyone happy all of the time.
I think I’d be telling your dd and dh that it’s not just their house and they can’t expect other people to creep round because they want to sleep in.

Do you expect the older DC to respect their siblings earlier bedtimes and creep around because they want to sleep in?

There's an open room all their bedrooms open up to and it's being used as a place for them to play and watch tv.

That does sound really frustrating.

Whoever wakes up with toddler DS takes him downstairs if the other person is sleeping. That seems respectful! This feels the same.

She's still asleep. You don't seem to have an issue with them sleeping and waking to their own schedules; which I don't disagree with, but that does mean you need to organise everyone so that they can do that.

If she wants enough sleep without getting disturbed by the rest of the family, she goes to bed earlier and wakes earlier, instead of hearing the rest of the family and shouting that she’s been woken up. It was pretty obvious what I meant.

Absolutely not, once my younger 2 are asleep they will sleep through anything. My 13 year old sits in the same bedroom as 7 year playing on his PlayStation talking (not particularly quietly) to his friends on the headset whilst my 7 year old is sleeping.
I was never a ssh the babies sleeping kind of parent when they were small so maybe that’s why they are the way they are now.

well, i'm a single mum with a sleeping disorder, i sleep best between 2am and 9am, so my kids are told to keep it down before 9am on a weekend (they wake up about 6am), as i need to sleep having only got 4hrs sleep most nights in the week with having to be up to get DD to school.

I'm not 'wasting half the day' by not getting up before 9.30, i'm recouping essential rest.

OP.. i think 9am is a decent compromise, but i dont think its fair having to deal with someone playing OUTSIDE your bedroom door, can't the boys play in one of their rooms?

Not even commenting on your DH, mine slept until 2pm some days and i learned not to disturb him (one of myriad reasons i'm single)

Agree.

My dad is one of those people and then asks “what did you do today”? and it drove me mad as a kid and still annoys me now. Why does one have to get up early if they don’t have to, especially on a weekend. Why must I be out of bed before noon if I have nothing pressing to do?

The whole sunlight thing is perplexing even more so when it does get dark earlier.

I'm not sure that the people in the OP have a sleep disorder? Obviously, if they had such a thing then measures would be taken? They don't appear too, so therefore it's not relevant.

FFS why is your problem to solve, you are a family. Sit down and discuss. Agree quiet hours for example 10pm to 8am outside of that time ppl need to be considerate but not mice. Your DH needs to man up and sleep at a reasonable times and maybe parent his kids, basically he misses maybe four hours of his 6 yr old each day each weekend..... he is Shit dad

As a defensive owl, I knew this thread would descend into an early riser v late riser spat! Aggravating that larks are seen as virtuous and worthy and owls as lazy and slovenly even though we get the same amount of stuff done in the day so what's the problem?

I love sleeping later at the weekend and then enjoying a cup of tea and book in bed before I have to get up and "do stuff". I'm happy to be busy into the evening as that is when my energy and imagination is at its peak, long after the larks have gone to bed at 9pm like overgrown toddlers.

My father constantly berated us (me and sibling), both owls, when we lived at home for "wasting the day". He'd get up at 6am and mow the lawn and stuff. I bet the neighbours hated him. After lunch though he'd go for a 2-3 hour nap ... in daylight! We'd ask why that wasn't "wasting the day" but it was different apparently.

Luckily my husband and kids are all owls too!

Come on OP, it’s not difficult. Everyone needs to learn to compromise a bit here and you need to step up and teach them.

It’s not ok to run around making a racket while others are sleeping. It’s also not ok to expect the whole house to tip toe around a 10 year old that wants to sleep till 10am. The fighting is unacceptable for all of them.

You don’t have to take all toys down but can’t you keep a small selection of quiet games/toys downstairs? If you are up why can’t you take the younger one down with you? Have a quiet breakfast together, make a cake, write a shopping list, play a game. Otherwise take a cup of tea up to the play room and sit with them there. When they are playing together and the noise starts, step in before the fight breaks out.

The boys need to learn to keep it down and if the 10 year old is feeling cranky about sleep, she could try going to bed earlier. A 10 year old needs roughly 10-11 hours sleep. If she woke at 9am, that would be going to bed between 10 & 11pm which is certainly late enough for a 10 year old.

Sleep phones with white noise app. My 12 year old uses them as his brothers wake him and he likes a snooze. Or get her foam earplugs

@honeylulu You knew better than me! I had no idea it was so controversial for dd to have a lie in. I was just frustrated by the fighting. We only moved recently, so we're still getting used to this house. I think it was a mistake to make the area they play right off of the bedrooms, though dh liked this house for that respect as it gave us the opportunity to have an adult space downstairs. I think that dream isn't going to work for our family. I need to find toy storage that doesn't scream kids where magnetic tiles and legos can be kept and easily cleaned up. I also think the problem will solve itself shortly as I can't imagine my 12 year old will want to play much longer, so I should facilitate that for as long as it lasts in a way that disturbs others the least.

OP, you still haven't explained why they can't play in their rooms rather than outside DD's door?

@PhantomUnicorn I think they play in the space outside their rooms because that's where the toys are. My 6 year old shares a wall with my 10 year old so his room is right next to hers. I think the obvious solution I previously didn't consider is that the toys they play with together should be downstairs.

Can’t think offhand or link as don’t know where they got it from but DB and SIL have nice storage for magnetic tiles and Lego (they’re in a 2 bedroom flat currently).

depends, a lot of people suffer from a delayed circadian rhythm, is called Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome.. its a more 'extreme' version of what makes an owl an owl.

I have DSPS and i literally CANNOT fall asleep before 1am at the absolutely earliest, if i do its out of sheer exhaustion because i average about 4hrs sleep most nights, and 6hrs is an amazing night for me, but if i do fall asleep early, i wake up at something like 3/4am and can't get back to sleep.

It was thought i had insomnia or i was causing my own issues by not 'choosing' to sleep earlier for years until we found out it was DSPS.

People on here insisting there is some virtue in early to bed, early to rise, and there isn't, there is no moral failing in sleeping in.

Whatever the reason for being a lark or an owl, everyones sleep pattern should be respected.

@Islandparadise

also some people can’t just make themselves fall
asleep earlier.

I'd encourage them to play in the 12yos room. I'm with you on downstairs being 'adult' space.

I have 2 older kids, but the youngest was 10 when we moved here and i stopped them having toys downstairs.. they have their own bedrooms each and a play room and they get my room to play in as well once i'm up. The only space i get that is entirely mine as a play free zone is my living room.

The dining room is shared space for hobbies and gaming.

I know that set up isn't for everyone, and with one 6yo it could be argued you might have to tolerate it a bit longer, but don't let people tell you you're not allowed to designate your lounge a toy free zone, you are.

I think your idea of moving the toys downstairs is really the most logical solution.

I feel for your DD, she is in her room with books at 8PM, quietly respecting the sleep time of her brothers when I imagine she'd much prefer to be bouncing off the walls until midnight as owls do.

Surely the natural flipside of this is that they sit quietly with books in the morning to respect her sleep time, rather than bouncing off the walls as larks do.

Tbh I think that your DH needs to take a Saturday (or a Sunday) and leave the house early with the boys, especially the eldest who is awake so early that his day truly is half-gone. DHs sleep is crappy anyway, may as well be exhausted and useful than just exhausted.

When do you get your lie-in, OP?

The boys don't need to tiptoe around or be silent or anything else - they just need not to play right outside her bedroom door when she's asleep. 10am is not very late, my similar-aged daughter has started sleeping noticeably later in the last few weeks.

I sleep in until 10am almost every Sunday and 10am half of the time on Saturdays. I don't expect the children to be quiet.
I certainly don't feel like I've wasted half of the day!
Those of you who feel like half of the day is wasted, are you out of the house 8am-5pm all weekend?

I would have lost 3 hours of study time if I got up at 10am on a weekend so it would be time wasted for me.