Would you wait forever for your dream man or would you ‘settle’?

[Missgemini]

Random post that doesn’t actually affect my life, but I’ve been wondering about this.

I’m in my early 30s, married with kids (just for background). I have a couple of close friends that are single and looking. They’ve dated, but haven’t found anyone to be serious with.
It's not a case of a lack of men around. The ‘issue’ is the perceived calibre of the men. These are high flying women that have achieved a lot in their lives, so they only want men that have either achieved the same or higher. For example, one would not date anyone earning less than 100k a year.
I’ve tried to say on a couple of occasions that they’re probably missing out on lots of good men earning a bit less but with the potential to make more in future (not that I think that money is the be all and end all). Anyway, they disagree and say they don’t see why they should reduce their standards.

Disclosure: I got lucky and met a great guy who ticks a lot of my boxes and did not have to ‘settle’, so this really isn’t my business, but these close friends do discuss their dating lives regularly with me.

So, my question is: would you wait potentially forever for the man of your dreams if you’re single? AIBU for encouraging them to give some ‘Lower earners’ a chance?

So approximately 1 per cent of population earns more than 100k. ( think it’s less but this figure makes the arithmetic easier for me)

let’s be generous and (account for gender gap) and say that 70 percent of these high earners are men. So 0.7 of population.

these high earners are massively skewed towards over 40’s, so let’s assume they are looking at 30-40 age range. I’d estimate we’d narrowed it down to 0.1 of population.

In a country of 68 million, it’s still a fair number. But what about married men ? Knock off a quarter (0.075)

lone term relationships? Another quarter- 0.05

Now, they’ve got to weed out all the wankers ( remember such princes like Rishi Sunak/ Boris Johnston/ Russell Brand would’ve occupied this space when 30-40)

let’s be generous and say half are arrogant/ unattractive/poor social skills. That’s now 0.025.

and of course these guys need to live close enough to maintain a relationship. ( hopefully your friends are in London because otherwise that number can be halved again)

now they have to like you too.

they’ve basically narrowed it down to about 10 men!

Everyone should be themselves. It's fine your friends stick with what they want. And they should. Absolutely. Like all markets, the dating market will decide if what they present is desirable to the target demographic. If not, they need to accept they will be permanently single.

I don't see an issue in any of this.

If being at least 6 foot 2, £100k salary, 6 pack etc. is important to you, then you have every right to choose not to settle for less. Unfortunately, such men also have the right to decide that their non-negotiables involve being under 25, max size 8, perfect boobs, understanding of their hobbies and turn a blind eye to their affairs. So you'd better match up!!!

IMO such shallowness is depressing.

lol as if many men are not shallow! See if they will date a woman they don't think is pretty no matter how good or kind she is.

Money doesn’t come into it for me.

In fact, someone who earns too much would put me off due to them being stereotypically more likely to cheat or be a narcissist.

I never ask how much someone earns at first. as I wouldn’t want it to sway my opinion.
I try and avoid asking what people do for a living too.

But I am happily single and would not settle for just anyone.

If I find a guy that’s going to improve my life then I’d go for it but I won’t lower my standards as that would make me less happy than I am now.

Yes, of course they do - that’s the point. We can have whatever requirements we like.

Again with the ‘men that make over £100,000 aren’t good men!’ I see. As if men that make much less don’t have affairs or physical preferences when it comes to women.

Set your standards, absolutely. But also be aware that you may not be what that perfect standard is looking for.

Firstly I think it is a bit of a manosphere trope that women are all being unreasonable in what they seek in a man and that if only we lowered our standards we would find a man. Men like that think women are all seeking a man who is 6 foot 2, earns £100,000 a year, is fit, handsome, full head of hair, owns his own home etc. When to most women their standards are more like is kind, treats her with respect, is reliable, does his fair share of domestic chores, doesn't have issues with substance abuse, gambling, porn addiction. Isn't abusive or a cheater and isn't a liability i.e. not in masses of debt or is unstable in their behaviour. Things like being attracted to the man, being compatible, or him being solvent and gainfully employed are also good but that isn't the same as demanding an Adonis with millions of pounds. So what most women what is the basics and the truth is so many men can't even manage that bare minimum standard of behaviour.

Rather than admit to their own deficiencies men then like to say women are being unreasonable and that they all want only the best men.

I am married now but in my single years I dated 11 men. Out of those 11 men, 6 of them, more than half were not really good men at all, toxic really and would never make any woman a good partner all of them had issues which were at first not apparent but serious impediments to a life together; commitment phobic, substance abuse, abusive to me, selfish and spineless, users, lazy and so on. These men are still single now.

Two were not awful but suffered from some kind of instability which made them not bad people but not someone I would want to be married to. Two were decent men but just not right for me at that time. All these men are now married.

Out of these 11 men I dated only one was good enough for me to say yes to when he asked me to marry him. Only one was a decent man with no serious issues, who I was attracted to, compatible with and who wouldn't be a liability. He's a human being so not perfect but he is a good man and I totally fell in love for the first time in my life when I met and got to know him.

I had received proposals from earlier boyfriends but I knew deep down I wouldn't be happy in the marriage and I ended things. I waited for the right person for me and I'm very glad I did. I think it is better to be single than stuck in a marriage with a man who has issues and makes your life harder.

Interestingly the longer I went on dating and the higher I raised the bar the closer and closer I got to my ideal man the last two men I dated before DH were both good men just not right for me then I met DH and knew very quickly he was the one.

Unfortunately there are plenty of men who earn much less that still have affairs. But the reality is that the £100k plus Adonis has a much greater opportunity and ability to cheat, and are generally able to be more discerning in their choice of partner.

The point I was making is that it is fine for women to be discerning, but be aware that the definition of top tier men being discussed here in terms of looks, salary, lack of baggage and so on are also highly likely discerning themselves and the women that have such high standards are likely to have a hard time attracting this category unless they tick a lot of boxes themselves. And are doomed to, ironically, lament the shallowness of men.

Honestly, they’re the ones that bring up their dating lives. We are very close friends and do discuss everything openly. They’re the ones that are worried about finding the right guy that meets the standards they have.

They are beautiful! I know it sounds silly to say, but there are no issues in that department! They have attention from men, just not the men they want.

So are higher earning women.

Who is talking about 6 foot Adonis though? That’s what ‘a good man I find attractive, who shares values and lifestyle goals to me, and exists on a financially equal footing to me’ is being spun as, but it isn’t. It’s hardly ‘out there’ in terms of standards either.

If someone would rather be single than settle for less than a 6ft Adonis though, that’s up to them. They’re still not ‘wrong’ 🤷🏻‍♀️

No one owes it to anyone else to settle.

@notlucreziaborgia I completely agree with you. I think that those values are important. I just caution against being too specific and having too high a standard, and that high earning handsome men are likely to have their own 'standards' that we will likely find shallow and even distasteful .

Honestly I don’t care what other peoples standards are. It’s not for me to judge them shallow or distasteful. I’m sure people find mine to be the same, and I don’t care about that either. We’re all entitled to have our own standards.

Nor do I. I hope these women find their dream man and live happily ever after. Genuinely. However, given that this is a discussion forum and I am in in the mood for a discussion, I am putting forward my opinion which is that there can be pitfalls and disappointments in having such standards and that some are guilty of a degree of hypocrisy.

Meh, I hope they find their dream man, and if not, not settle but continue to live blissfully and happily single, enjoying the money they earn, their careers, and their friends, not giving a toss. Seeing a partner as what it is a nice to have but certainly not necessary,

no downside there as far as I can see.

As has been said up thread, some women do actually want children.
If these women don't then this is the perfect scenario.

There are pitfalls to settling too. Hell, there are pitfalls to every decision we make in life, be they compromises or not. That’s just life.

Their choice is their own at the end of the day, but if they want kids as part of the dream they might need to rethink.

fwiw I married a reasonably high earner and was miserable with a man boy not willing to take on any responsibility other than earning. I was a high earner back then too but not now (Since Dd)

Now with someone starting literally from scratch and am so much happier. There will be things we can’t afford but I’d rather that than the other. I do have an amazing DD, half of a decent pension and house to show for the first one mind you.

I was single for 8/9 years before I met my now DP.

I didn't settle. But I also had standards that they had ambition and drive and a career or working towards one.

You mentioned about their "calibre" of men they are dating being poor,

I think because you're married it's hard to imagine. But the dating world is dire these days. Because of all the dating apps available, there are too many options and you become disposable for want of a better word. And people do take advantage of that fact and ghost/move on really quickly!

No one should settle, I'm very glad I didn't settle and I'm in my 40's!

I had a great career and believed that I needed to find an equal so I married a man who was in a better position than me and it all went well to start with. Unfortunately after children it all started going downhill when I was struggling to manage childcare and my career simultaneously without a lot of help from him. I ended up packing in the job and the husband and became a single mum with limited career prospects and a part-time income.

One my close friends married someone that I had briefly dated in my youth. He didn't earn a huge amount and had little in the way of a career, but he is the kindest person I know. My friend continued her successful career while her husband was a brilliant stay-at-home dad. She loved her life as all the stresses of childcare that I experienced were not an issue and she was free to enjoy her job, coming home every night to a loving relaxed family atmosphere.

With hindsight, I can now see how wrong I was to think I needed a partner who was in an equal career role. Personality is so much more important.

I think every situation is so different. I wouldn’t say I settled. I did marry someone who makes less than me who while he does a fair bit with the kids, it’s superdad & is fairly vocal about how much he struggles with being a parent. I think I was naive about how much money matters.

Our marriage is fine but I started to get stressed in work to the point where I left & the reality is I have to be the higher earner. I guess what I’m trying to articulate (badly) is that I feel our balance is off. IMO he doesn’t do enough in the home and with the kids to make up for the extra work pressure on me.

He cooks for the kids but it’s almost always pizza, sausages, burgers type thing.

Im sure he has his own perspective on where we are at. Id stress I’m neither the perfect parent nor the perfect wife.

I guess my ultImate issue is that if he was earning more I wouldn’t care as much about the house stuff, I could do less hours or even just a less stressful job and do more with the kids etc or at least be more relaxed when I’m with them and I’d be much much happier.

So in short from your friends’ perspective I don’t think they are wrong as such to consider earning given they are high earners themselves. Maybe they envisage a relationship where they’d both a big careers and outsourced childcare, cleaning etc. there’s nothing wrong with that.

I think this is important, studies show that men, in general do less household chores even when they work less than a woman or are a stay at home parent!

I didn’t vote because I don’t need a man to earn good money and live a good life. I’m happy single and if the right guy came a long which I doubt at this point in my life it wouldn’t matter what he earns as I have my own money.

I don't think its a case of reducing the standards - i think its more that what they see as important, and whether that standard is going to result in them looking for the right type of men and more importantly dismissing ones that could be good candidates. .

For instance if someone has a standard that a man must be over 6ft so they can wear heels... well that's not going to depict what kind of man that is - just his height; the 6ft guy may be a loser, no direction, batter all the ex girlfriends, be a miser but at least hes tall, right? If someone states a man must be earning 100k; he could be all of the above, as well as a player and a cheat? which is more important? His earnings or his character?

People are more than one element; after all if a guy was on here saying he only wanted big breasted women, under 22, fit and blonde, gym bod who is super sexy - he would be ostracized and classed as shallow....