To deliver a lesson in table manners?

[Mannersdomatter]

My partners child is 12 and just started high school (year 7).

I realised last week that she doesn’t know how to use cutlery. We went to a very nice expensive restaurant and she ate her entire meal, including broccoli, with her fingers. She was holding broccoli in her fist like a banana/lollipop and biting it.

later on I asked her to use her cutlery and she had it in the wrong hands and was totally
clueless how to hold it.

in addition to this she lies down at the table, sits on her phone, spills food down herself, chews with her mouth open and is generally lacking in table manners.

I work in education and have children myself and I am astonished at how immature she is. She behaves more like a 6/7 year old. She is clearly bright, but speaks in a very baby voice and asks the most silly questions for her age. I worry she’ll be targeted at school by bullies.

WIBU to say to my partner I won’t eat out with them again until he teaches her how to use cutlery? I don’t feel it’s my place to pull her up on her table manners (although I have done several times).

I just realised I sound like my mother! 😂

Depends on priorities/ circumstances when being brought up - if for instance tv dinners and no dining table, it’s likely that she’s never had the chance to sit down at a table with cutlery to have a meal, rather than refuel while doing something else. Sit them both down, tell them in your house/going for a meal manners are really important as is thinking about food and having a conversation rather than absent mindlessly eating while distracted by tv/ phones etc

Above post was meant to quote this post:

It is widely accepted that if you’re right handed you hold your knife in your right hand and fork in left. If you’re left handed then you would swap around.

If my daughter's school is anything to go by, yes she will get picked on if she can't eat sat at a table. My friends got hauled in for a meeting with the head of year when their child couldn't sit at a table and use a knife and fork. They found it "hilarious" but the unfortunate truth was that their daughter was being picked on because it was frankly gross. You need to understand why she hasn't be shown how to sit at a table properly, especially at the age of 12!

IME most left handed people (we have several in our family) still hold the fork in their left and the knife in their right. That said, I don't think most people would care if someone needed to hold them the other way round. The point is to be able to eat neatly and tidily without disturbing other people, something that a 12 year old (assuming so significant SN) should be able to do.

I completely agree.

OP has actually said she doesn’t think the girl has SEN and so therefore she thinks it’s simply bad parenting - how she finds this attractive is beyond me!

She behaves more like a 6/7 year old

I’d say this is the actual problem, rather than just the cutlery. There’s something wrong if she consistently behaves like a six-year-old.

Either she actually does have some significant SEN, or she has been badly neglected, or she has deliberately started behaving like a baby, either for attention or because she’s been traumatised by something.

Actually yes, dyspraxia could account for all those things. (Which doesn't mean that's what's going on here nessasarily)

You would be surprised at how many children that age can't use a knife and fork. I work with kids and we eat out often as a group. I noticed it the other year when one 12 year old was just using a fork and just shovelling food in her mouth. I asked her to use a knife and fork and she didn't have a clue. Once you notice things once you see it all the time then.
A lot of the families I work with have many take aways (burgers, pizzas) and these are all finger foods.
Also many famils dont have a dining table and some children have got used to laying out on the floor watch tv or gaming while they eat.
At work we often have children complaining when they are adjed to sit at the table for their meal and think they should be allowed to eat in the gaming chair while playing fortnite.

Sorry but I don't agree with this. Lots of people eat with their right hand due to religious reasons. The rest is bad manners but cutlery in the wrong hand is a ridiculous thing to pick at.

Ffs! It is not ableist or bigoted to teach your children social conventions around eating!!!!
If it emerges that she is left handed or dyspraxic then that needs to be accommodated (obviously). Nobody is suggesting the girl is beaten, only that she is given life skills that will allow her to blend in with society (if she chooses). If she can use cutlery but chooses not to as an adult that’s her decision but as a child our responsibility is to impart those skills.

Yes, an eye opening thread.

Parents don't parent anymore.

Really? I'm left handed and have my fork in the left hand and knife in the right.

At 12 something is amiss if she cannot or will not use cutlery. I assume she takes sandwiches to school as it's unlikely she'd be allowed to eat school dinners with her fingers if there's no sn and therefore no accomodations for her needs.

You say there's no sn. If that actually is the case (which given your description of her behaviours I doubt tbh. Her behaviours indicate the possibility of some form of sn ) then that means she's got shit parents who have failed her. I'd break up with him for being such a crap parent.

I completely agree.

This would be ringing alarm bells for me as it’s obvious there are some additional needs, she has been badly neglected or there’s trauma.

The not holding cutlery would be the least of my concerns.

Why has her father not taught her and why have you tolerated such neglect?

I don't think anyone has said that though.

What most people quite rightly have a problem with is the outdated thinking regarding there being a correct hand to hold a fork in.

I am left handed and use cutlery as a right handed person would as that's how I was taught and at the age of 50 it's an ingrained habit.

But that's a red herring and irrelevant in this case where the child is not using cutlery AT ALL and is picking up broccoli in the way a 6 month old baby would when you introduce solids. Totally unacceptable. I would be mortified if any of my kids thought that was acceptable in a restaurant and they wouldn't get away with it at home either. Fingers are for sandwiches, pizza, that sort of food.

I would absolutely bring it up OP, if she eats with you insist on appropriate manners.

I doubt very much that OP would have posted if the 12 year old had simply been using cutlery in the other hand to the one that typically goes with dominant handedness

I was wondering how she copes at school (including on residentials) or round at a friend's house. It's really not fair to omit basic table manners from what you teach a child, and a one that is secondary school aged should have mastered it long ago

I went to a big family celebratory dinner in a hotel. I was sitting next to my 14-year-old nephew-in-law. There was a serving platter of chips being handed round and he dug in with his hands and pulled his portion out. I was about to say something but the much scarier aunt on the other side of him said 'No, we don't use our hands to serve ourselves, use the serving tool here, in the platter'.

He was oblivious that we didn't want his (perhaps) grubby paws digging into the chips. I had thought that by 14 he would know how to eat properly at the table. Later my in-laws (his grand-parents) said they'd been trying to teach him 'table manners' when he came to stay as his parents didn't see the need.

I totally agree with you OP, its like a race to the bottom. Kids do pick up on it and do tease each other.
My DD was three when we were eating breakfast in a hotel and she commented quite loudly how the man next to us was holding his fork like a shovel.
When I was in uni there was a really attractive guy I was crazy about until I saw him eat! Mouth open while shovelling food in, chewing like a horse.
Absolutely put me off totally.

My god I am SO sick of every example of shit parenting on here being out down to the child having SEN by so many posters.

There is a right way and a wrong way to hold cutlery, being left or right handed has nothing to do with it.

The only two people I know who consistently use the wrong hand are both right handed.

It looks so award, using the knife to 'hold' the food and then using the fork to pull the food appart.

Some knives are impossible to use in the wrong hands.

Wrong hands is fine. I really struggled to get eldest to use cutlery, till we hit upon the fact for cutlery she is left handed, it's the only thing she's left handed for apart from fine sanding with sandpaper she prefers to use her left hand.

Sorry, for me eating with her mouth open would require me to eat at another table.
Could she be hypermobile? My son’s hypermobility wasn’t diagnosed until he was 14. In his case he can’t hold a pen as his finger joints dislocate. Although I find it strange that her parents have not picked up on it.

Bring it up, of course.
Your SD needs to be educated and to practise table manners at home without pressure. Once she has learnt table manners she is at least able to use them or not at her leisure but not because she is ignorant and neglected.
Involve her in the setting of the table and why knives and forks are placed where they are etc.
This is so embarrassing for her and your husband has let her down. Does he eat with his fingers?

My autistic DS had fine motor skills delays. I think it's that she is also immature and speaks in a baby voice and spills food down herself that suggests there may be something else going on