To deliver a lesson in table manners?

[Mannersdomatter]

My partners child is 12 and just started high school (year 7).

I realised last week that she doesn’t know how to use cutlery. We went to a very nice expensive restaurant and she ate her entire meal, including broccoli, with her fingers. She was holding broccoli in her fist like a banana/lollipop and biting it.

later on I asked her to use her cutlery and she had it in the wrong hands and was totally
clueless how to hold it.

in addition to this she lies down at the table, sits on her phone, spills food down herself, chews with her mouth open and is generally lacking in table manners.

I work in education and have children myself and I am astonished at how immature she is. She behaves more like a 6/7 year old. She is clearly bright, but speaks in a very baby voice and asks the most silly questions for her age. I worry she’ll be targeted at school by bullies.

WIBU to say to my partner I won’t eat out with them again until he teaches her how to use cutlery? I don’t feel it’s my place to pull her up on her table manners (although I have done several times).

I just realised I sound like my mother! 😂

Why because they’re not agreeing with you?

Because its ableist that's why.

Would you hide a racist comment in amongst a post and expect people not to pick up on it?

I don’t understand why you have to pull her up on it, or refuse to eat out with her or whatever? Surely you can just teach her how to do it over time and she can feel a bit more confident? You seem to blame her for having different manners to you.

No she said clearly said the wrong hands in her first post.

Dyspraxia

Exactly.

Why wouldn't people have an issue with such nonsense.

If there really is no SEN I'd be having words with her dad about his crap parenting.

There’s no such thing as the wrong way round. I can’t get my head round why people force their kids to hold their cutlery in certain hands instead of letting them do what feels comfortable.

I'm left handed and hold my knife in my left and my fork in my right. All three of my kids are right handed and they also do the same - it's what feels natural to them.

I remember when I first got with my DH, his dad brought it up that my eldest (different dad hence why he was already big enough to use cutlery) should be doing it differently. I soon shut that down.

As for OPs situation, I'd mention it to your partner (not about the 'wrong' hands things though) and let them deal with it. It's not the child's fault, especially if they have never been told differently.

This or your both.

It doesn't matter about which hands that's the least of the girls problems by the sound of it .

She was holding broccoli in her fist like a banana/lollipop and biting it.

Can we move on from the cutlery contretemps and discuss this because I’m fairly certain I hold bananas and lollipops in a different fashion and I’m not sure I’d form a fist for either.

Which SEN would that be then?

Is this a serious question? You know a few sen children by association and you think that it means anyone with a disability can use cutlery correctly? My autistic children do chew with their mouths closed but they struggle using cutlery correctly. Especially my child who’s globally delayed and couldn’t give a shit about socially acceptable table manners (though have finally got him to sit down at dinner, eating with fingers is the least of my concerns there). Their father evidently has undiagnosed ASD and he struggles with cutlery coordination. It’s admittedly something I didn’t understand until after our children started showing ASD traits. I did think he’d been raised by wolves at the dinner table at times but that was my own ignorance that I’ve had to learn from.

Does she never use cutlery then Op?

Im sorry but i am right handed and i use my fork in my right and knife in my left does that mean i was neglected. It doesnt feel right when i swap them over.

It’s pretty bad that no one has taught her this basic life skill, but not her fault. Could you show her kindly how to do this, not in a rebuking way for “poor etiquette”, but just in a positive way?

Nah you're good. It just means you had parents who cared more about your comfort than outdated ideals of 'right and wrong' when it comes to cutlery. My mum and dad were the same and I'm grateful they didn't try and change me.

JFC it's not her fault if no one taught her to use cutlery, no need to be so cruel.

Getting away from the cutlery, surely we can all agree that it's basic good manners not to eat with your mouth open so that others can see the food being chewed?

I suppose given that many households don't have a table and eat all meals from trays or plates on lap, it's perhaps not surprising that leads to people only having meals that are easily eaten with the fingers. Pizza, nuggets, chips, for example. I assume she knows how to use a spoon?

And were you ”totally clueless” as to how to hold cutlery and ate broccoli with your fist?

in addition to this she lies down at the table, sits on her phone, spills food down herself, chews with her mouth open and is generally lacking in table manners.
She is clearly bright, but speaks in a very baby voice and asks the most silly questions for her age.

How's it possible to lie down at the table? Head rested on the tabletop?

Could the baby voice be a defensive mechanism for keeping her dad's attention when you're around? Are your children present at these meals?

It amazes me how some people can use a phone but not a knife or fork.

There kind of is. If you're right handed, it makes no sense to hold a spoon in your left, for instance, and if it's a knife and fork it makes more sense to hold the knife in your right hand so you have more dexterity for cutting.

It’s inextricably part of the wider issue that she can’t use cutlery at all. So she either has SEN issues or has been neglected.

And I’m a poc so you fuck off with your racism analogy. (See - sometimes offence can be caused without intention?)

Actually I'm not. I've always struggled with cutlery as well as a lot of other things that require coordination. I was diagnosed with autism as an adult. But seriously, struggling to use it totally as you're meant to vs grabbing fistfulls and shoving it in while dropping it all down yourself is totally different. If a child has had no other indications of SEN before this I highly doubt she is unable to at least use a knife and fork rather than her hands. I'm sure the OP wouldn't have been on here complaining if she'd have just have been using it in the wrong hands etc. At 12 she really needs to start to learn. Her friends will notice. Can you imagine a 16 year old eating like that when out just with friends?
When I'm alone I often still use my fingers to pick up certain foods. I prefer it. It feels more natural to me. I'm also prone to being quite messy. (To the extent I change my top if I don't want to drop stuff down myself!) But when I'm by myself at home it doesn't matter. I am however much more careful when I'm public. I will force myself to use cutlery "properly". (Mostly anyway. I don't get worked up over shovelling peas etc or using a fork only to cut something). I was at a posh meal recently. I got flustered and used the wrong knife. Then accidentally picked up 2 knives rather than a fork and knife. I just put them down and tried again. What I didn't do was just start picking up my steak in my hands.
If someone genuinely has such significant SEN they cannot use a knife and fork most people would be very understanding. This does not seem to be the case here.

I think y our main priority is in getting her to use cutlery at all. Worry about which utensil is in which hand later, when she's mastered holding cutlery

But no, YANBU to tell your partner you won't eat out until she eats with cutlery. It can't be much fun for you and your probably paying for the privalage so i'd put a stop to it. In fact, I'd make a point of going out for dinner with friends if he's going out for dinner with his daughter. Otherwise, all that happens is that they go out for a meal and you stay home - that's not really an incentive for your boyfriend to each his daughter to use cutlery.

Because they know what Op meant, but enjoy nit picking and trying to put people down. It makes them feel that they are somehow superior. 😂