To deliver a lesson in table manners?

[Mannersdomatter]

My partners child is 12 and just started high school (year 7).

I realised last week that she doesn’t know how to use cutlery. We went to a very nice expensive restaurant and she ate her entire meal, including broccoli, with her fingers. She was holding broccoli in her fist like a banana/lollipop and biting it.

later on I asked her to use her cutlery and she had it in the wrong hands and was totally
clueless how to hold it.

in addition to this she lies down at the table, sits on her phone, spills food down herself, chews with her mouth open and is generally lacking in table manners.

I work in education and have children myself and I am astonished at how immature she is. She behaves more like a 6/7 year old. She is clearly bright, but speaks in a very baby voice and asks the most silly questions for her age. I worry she’ll be targeted at school by bullies.

WIBU to say to my partner I won’t eat out with them again until he teaches her how to use cutlery? I don’t feel it’s my place to pull her up on her table manners (although I have done several times).

I just realised I sound like my mother! 😂

@Gerrataere @DiddyRa Don' get angry here, I actually don't just 'vaguely' know these children with SEN I mentioned, but am very close to their parents and have known and spent a lot of time around them since birth. They had a combinations of SEN, and it was also difficult to teach them to handle cutlery for example. But their parnets taught them nonetheless which sometimes took a lot of effort.
Thank you @Hereforthebunfights I just looked up dyspraxia, that's looks really hard and I see that they even mention cutlery etc literally. Never too old to learn!

But anyway, OP already mentioned that there is no SEN involved, so not relevant to her post..

This came to my mind too. There could also be dyspraxia as there is often v poor hand grip i.e. a physical inability to manipulate something like a knife and a fork. It sounds as though your partner should request an OT assessment for his DD as a first step. Do not make her feel more shameful by refusing to eat out with them. Rather, encourage her DF to find out what’s going on.

You say there is “no disability or ASN” but then describe aspects of her development as being severely delayed (6/7 year old), and I’d assume as a teacher you would have some professional experience of developmental delays, how are you squaring those things?

I realised last week that she doesn’t know how to use cutlery.

What do you mean? Does she get someone to cut her food up for her, or does she just pick up anything that had to be cut? Would she just use her hands to eat, say, a chicken thigh on the bone?

That's not abusive at all is it?

I didn’t say you ‘vaguely’ knew them, I said you knew them by association. That doesn’t give you a valid insight into individual SEN and development of social or coordination skills.

But their parnets taught them nonetheless which sometimes took a lot of effort.

Good for them, but that doesn’t mean those of us with SEN children who have tried to implicate these expected social manners and not yet managed to achieve it have not put in ‘a lot of effort’. Im sure you don’t mean to come over as both patronising and a tad ignorant but your very limited insight doesn’t give for a balanced view here.

Bloody hell!

She’s a 12yo who acts like a 6yo.

There’s either additional needs or she has extremely negligent parents.

Regardless, it’s not her fault and she shouldn’t be made to feel bad or treated like an animal over it.

The not using cutlery is the least of her problems.

I thought the conventional way (in the sense of which hand) to hold knife/ fork was to do with that's how it feels most comfortable rather than manners, so wouldn't bat an eyelid of someone had them in opposite hands 🤷🏽‍♀️

Obviously understand this isn't really the point of the post just addressing all the comments about this

Me and OH are both left handed and we don't do that, we hold our cutlery like everyone else.

I’d be appalled that her father has let her get to 12 without doing even basic parenting. It put put me right off him. Poor girl!

I'll quote you here: This is so ignorant. Just because you may vaguely know some children with SEN, really doesn’t mean you know everyone’s capabilities and every type of disability.

So yes you did literally say I vaguely knew them.
I've also never said that you or other SEN parents don't put in the effort, on the contrary even, I know it can take a lot of effort.

@Vegemiteandhoneyontoast Interesting. Is this because it's what was comfortable for you naturally though or because someone told you that was the 'right' way to eat? My brother is also left handed and eats the 'right handed' way but no one taught him to do it like that, he just finds it comfortable.

@TheBirdintheCave to be honest, I can't remember if I was taught that way or it was just comfortable. Eating the 'right handed' way is comfortable, though. Unless it's with a spoon.

So you've chosen to be with a man who has such bad parenting skills, that strangers would assume his NT DD has SEN when she's out in public.

How do you find this attractive?

Do you not see that he is negligent as a father?

Worst still, you're wondering if you should raise it, because it seems he doesn't notice &/or care that he's letting his child down by not teaching them basic skills.

Does he genuinely not think any effort is required with parenting, or is he just incredibly lazy?

I'm another one who is right handed, but eat with my fork in my right hand and knife in my left. Its not the wrong hands, its whats comfortable for me and loads of other people going by this thread. It shouldn't bother other people that we do that. All your other points I agree with and need sorting.

I couid say fuck off back but I'm more mature than that.

I'm mixed race so crack on.

Apologies, I did mean vaguely in a general context from what you quoted but yes I did use the word. However that wouldn’t be ‘ignorant’, simply an oversight.

My point remains that unless you have parented children with additional needs yourself, your opinion about what can and cannot be taught/learned simply isn’t relevant. SEN parents hear enough from the ‘well I know someone and they manage it’ train of thought, it’s never taken on board. Honestly in the kindest way, SEN parents don’t care for the passing opinions of those who dont have a clue (even if they think they do).

Anyway, the thread is being derailed here. I absolutely wouldn’t dismiss that the daughter has ASD traits. It presents differently in girls. As as they reach puberty, becoming evidently more immature than their peers is often a key sign. But as others say, it may well be neglect from parents as well. Does she have siblings and how do they behave if so?

@Vegemiteandhoneyontoast It's fascinating how differently brains work :) I'm technically right handed though do a lot of things with my left hand and eat with my knife in the left and fork in the right.

This isn't a hill I'd die on.

The bigger issue is surely that she doesn't even pick it up? What kind of food do you have at home where it's never bothered you she uses her hands only?

I am right handed and hold my knife in my left hand. Who cares?

Rather than giving her a lesson could you just ignore the fact that it annoys you and come up with a fun game of sorts. Are there any fun films things like princess diaries or pride and prejudice or Emma that you could spend some time watching and then have your own dinner party or we’ve even done murder mystery games where we all dress up. Make the table manners part of a character so you can teach her but it is fun and a bit ridiculous rather than embarrassing.

”Please do pass the port round”

What a horrible thing to suggest. Irrespective of her lack of manners nothing excuses humiliating a twelve year old.

People can hold cutlery in whatever hands they please

You sound very controlling

So dyspraxia accounts for the baby voice, sitting on her phone/inability to sit at all, and chewing with wide open mouth? Goodness me.

Seems like a whole group of posters are massively projecting while failing to read. That and the customary AIBU hyena-like pile-on. Which is a shame because this child clearly needs help.

No it isn't. I am right handed but I eat the way that has, in the past, being consdiered 'left handed' because that makes more sense to me.

Everything else you have said sounds like there is a problem and someone needs to help her.

But if you insist that she eat the 'right way' for her handedness you could mess with her brain development. I can't believe you're a teacher and you don't know this!