To think the Labour Party has lost its mind..

[Certainfailure]

Absolutely fuming with some of the clowns in the Labour Party.
25 points ahead of the Conservatives in the opinion polls.
Starmer slowly making the party electable and moving away from the reputation of the party being a left wing student activist group and terrorist supporters. The next GE theirs to lose.
And now word on the grapevine is that 40 odd MPs are ready to resign from the front bench because of they disagree with Starmer’s stance on a ceasefire. Quite a few labour councillors have already resigned from the party and now stand as independents. Big names like Rayner and Burnham have already stuck their oars in too.
Really cannot believe that a conflict thousands of miles away, albeit tragic, has now assumed more importance than the frightful state of the country. That these people are quite happy to throw away the progress that’s been made electorally for the sake of a frankly almost unsolvable conflict that’s lasted 70 plus years and is incredibly complex whilst the country is rapidly falling apart and in desperate need of change.
If Starmer resigns over this, no way will I ever vote Labour again and I say this as a life long labour voter for the last 35 years. Thought we’d seen the last of Corbyn and his vote losing influence but nope, there he is, with his little pet project, destined to scupper yet another GE for Labour. Anyone feel the same way ?

Might I remind those calling for a ceasefire that there was a cease fire in effect until 7 October 2023. It ended with the Hamas massacre and hostage taking.

Within hours, jubilant Palestinian sympathisers were on the streets of the UK, claiming a famous victory and chanting for Jihad and intifada -- days before the IDF began reprisals.

This is pure anti-semitism, and the PLP is (still) accommodating it. Where were the protestors when Pakistan began the forced repatriation of the 2 million Afghani refugees who had fled the Taliban back to Kabul? Why no marches against Bashar al-Arab who has been executing the wrong sects of Syrian Muslims with impunity for the last 12 years?

I like the Middle East. Most of my family and friends have lived there for years, many still do.

Great post.

Papyrophile · Today 14:15

Might I remind those calling for a ceasefire that there was a cease fire in effect until 7 October 2023. It ended with the Hamas massacre and hostage taking.

Well, only if you consider Israeli airstrikes, artillery strikes and people being shot by snipers, resulting in the deaths of 250 Palestinian people, before 7th of October, then yes, there was a ceasefire.

@SinnerBoy whether you like it or not it was an official ceasefire....
there were atrocities happening on both sides
Wife and two daughters ambushed and shot dead.....

More like pure whatboutery, lets stick to the subject.

Look just say what you want, which is Collective punishment or as Israel's defence secretary said "We will destroy Hamas, the rest is details"

Hamas kill 1400 Israelis in a terrible and barbaric act of butchery, Israel then kills x number of Palestinian civilians.... how many people should Israel be allowed to kill, 10k, 100k 1m ?

Is there no limit in your mind.

However many Israel kill, all they have done is ensure the Palestinians & the Israelis carry on the cycle of violence.

Criticising Israel is not being Anti Semitic, neither is supporting a ceasefire, which is to all intents and purposes the same as humanitarian pause.

Exactly this. They’ve lost their minds!

Interesting this. When the left of the Labour party had the leadership and power to make policy, it was the fault of the left that they didn't get elected.

Now that the right has the leadership and power to make policy . . .

It will be the fault of the left if they don't get elected!!! 😀

If it's unity you want, the amount of trouble leftwing Labour MPs have given Starmer is nothing compared to what the right did to undermine Corbyn, every day of this tenure. Yet apparently we must start from the axiom that the right is the natural, right and proper base of the party: If there's a leftwing leader, it's because the left have "usurped" that right and obviously the right will do the right thing and get rid of him by any means fair or foul. If there's a rightwing leader, it's just incomprehensible when the left don't do the right thing and put unity and loyalty above everything. 😂

We can't really hope so, because Starmer has changed the rules of the selection process to make sure noone from the left can ever be elected leader again.

Starmer doesn't believe in democracy.

It was the "far left" who led the protests against the Anglo-American invasion of Iraq.

It was the "far left" who led the movement in the USA and allied countries to withdraw from Vietnam.

It's not true that this demographic only cares about Palestine and jews. What the oppose is imperialism and colonialism. They tend to focus that opposition on imperialist aggression by powerful western states (or western-founded and supported states, like Israel) against others, rather than on conflict between non-western states themselves, out of a sense of guilt and responsibility for the actions of their own countries.

If it's unity you want, the amount of trouble leftwing Labour MPs have given Starmer is nothing compared to what the right did to undermine Corbyn, every day of this tenure

Whether this is true or not, let's not forget the 428 times he voted against the whip in his own party and what that may say about his own ideas of unity

Doubtless some will insist this was because such a principled man couldn't agree with what his party were doing, while others will maintain it was just more agitprop student politics from someone with a loose grasp of realities.
However if a party's main choices are so intolerable, the honourable thing to do is leave it, which ironically is what Corbyn's been forced to do anyway

Fair point.

Let's be honest here. The UK left have always supported Hamas and Hezbollah, and I don't think it has much to do with supporting the everyday Gazans, who probably want a job and to get on with life. Their aim is to stick one to the West, which is more successful.

The IMPERIALISTS who support the (only) liberal democracy in the Middle East, pretty much the only place it's safe to be gay or Christian, are halal. But because there are sizeable Muslim communities in many UK cities who tend to vote Labour, the PLP and the local constituency parties are willing to overlook grooming gangs, and criminal activity, for their votes.

Me... cynical? Yes, I'm 67. The scales and rose tinted lenses dropped from my eyes a looong time ago.

But are you prepared for the rose- tinted idiots deriving all their historical knowledge and global politics from ... are you ready ... TikTok.

https://www.youtube.com/live/oznEpt6FL6s?si=P7x9oek07NumT4ar

It's almost laughable but what an unforgivable insult to the innocents who died in 9/11, though these seem to be the same cohort ignoring the pogrom of Oct 7th.

It's telling that so many huge advertisers (Apple, Pepsi, Doctor Pepper and a lot more) have pulled Twitter/X off their media schedules because the chat is so anti-Semitic. And with the failure of SpaceX, Elon Musk has not had a good day at the office.

On the other side, Iran has told Hamas they're out on a limb too.

Both Israel and Hamas need to muzzle their extremist factions. There needs to be a cessation/suspension of hostilities, on both sides for roughly 48 hours, so medical emergencies can be removed to safety, while water, food and basic relief essentials are supplied to the displaced. But please don't call it a ceasefire, because that is to suggest a Hamas triumph.

I don't think this war has gone the way Hamas thought it might. It's pretty clear that Israel will just level Gaza into nothing, and occupy it afterwards, killing Hamas fighters if and when they find them.

This is what happened in Syria.

Whatever you call it, i'm glad you ve come round to the idea of stopping the fighting.
Israel has said no to limit fighting until hostages returned.

Not that it matters, Israel is going to carry on regardless but we shouldn't be supporting them.

Israel is now attacking where it told people to flee too, the south, apparently the idea is they move to the north now.

Israel is committing some of the worst atrocities we ve seen in the modern era, yesterday bombing a UN school, reports show classes full of dead children, body parts and terrified survivors... all kids.
300 people in the main hospital are dying, often through infection as no antibiotics and 30 babies already taken out of incubators - a former British surgeon who worked there said they will all die if moved as there is no working hospitals in the region.

I think it has gone exactly as Hamas wanted it, to a certain extent anyway. They don't care about Israel levelling Gaza, or civilian casualties. The more the better. They have escaped during Israels ham fisted attempt to smoke them out where they have more or less made themselves Public Enemy No 1, despite being the victims of a horrendous terrorist attack. They have stopped the treaty between Saudi Arabia and Israel. The only thing that hasn't gone their way is that their behaviour has been so outrageous that even Hezbollah has held back. They wanted a Holy War throughout the Middle East. They haven't got one. Apart from that, they are laughing all the way to the bank, hardly anyone of them captured or killed, they can start their recruitment campaign afresh, funded by the useful idiots in the West.

I Don't know why Mossad isn't going into Qatar to take out the main players. If they can smoke out old nazi's and bring them to justice they can do that.

Baring it mind they wouldn't run it past me if they were.

@Alexandra2001 Hamas have said they won’t participate in a ceasefire. They’ve said they’ll carry on attacking Israel indefinitely, presumably until they cause a Middle East conflagration and Israel is destroyed. What happens if it’s a one sided ceasefire ?
And regards your comment about babies dying due to lack of antibiotics, Hamas knew how Israel would react. Why didn’t they stockpile medical equipment and drugs prior to the attack. They knew it would be a long and fierce fight once Israel reacted. So why were no preparations made to protect their own people ? Maybe they view their own people with contempt. Their own people are collateral damage. The more killed, maimed, injured, the better. And as someone upthread said the Western useful idiots have fallen for it. And Israel is public enemy number one.

Why didn’t they stockpile medical equipment and drugs prior to the attack.

Because medical supplies, like everything else going into Gaza, is limited by Israel. And how could they stockpile electricity, for incubators and life support machines?

I think the answer is that Hamas knew exactly how Israel was going to respond and it's exactly what they wanted, so that people previously little concerned with Palestine would think, "Hang on a minute..." and reduce Israel's support, internationally.

Hamas don't care about the Palestinians. They can get anything in and through those tunnels. They are choosing not to. And then blaming Israel. They are playing a clever PR game where every move Israel make is plastered over every available social network or reposted by willing participants in order to attack them.

There is a lot that Hamas could do now to relieve the tension and make a pause achievable..... and I mean Hamas. They won't though because the Palestinians are a merely a pawn in a game and utterly dispensable to them. Eg let the Red Cross in to look at the babies. They have released footage of hostages in medical facilities so we know they were lying about not being there. And I doubt they would have gone unattended. And although understandable it also proves we can't believe everything that the Hamas health board and doctors say.

They need to say where they are if they are ok. Saying ' we don't have them all' says a lot about the situation in Gaza.

No Alexandra, I don't think the IDF should stop. a TEMPORARY cessation only. To remove medical emergencies, supply some water. which has been provided by and from Israel since Hamas ripped up and ripped off the water equipment supplied by the EU to use as mortars. Hamas have zero interest in the Palestinian population's best interests.

A two state solution is needed, but it is the Palestinians/Hamas who are resisting it. It has been offered repeatedly, And rejected. By the Palestinians. Every single time.

So because Hamas didn't stockpile this or that and i presume you mean water and electricity too, 10s of '000s of innocent people must die?

Babies women and children are dying because of a lack of everything, children given formula mixed with contaminated water, operations not done because of no electricity....

As i said earlier, Hamas is now not capable of attacking Israel now as they did in October, so it doesn't matter if any ceasefire is one sided, Hamas extremists can be dealt with, exactly as breaches in a "Humanitarian pause" aka a ceasefire.

There is zero difference between a 72hour HP and a CF, they are one in the same thing.

But post highlights why the issues in the ME are so entrenched, anyone who disagrees with you is a "useful idiot" and anyone who criticises Israel is an anti-Semite.

How about a (fwiw) constructive debate instead of calling people names?