To think the Labour Party has lost its mind..

[Certainfailure]

Absolutely fuming with some of the clowns in the Labour Party.
25 points ahead of the Conservatives in the opinion polls.
Starmer slowly making the party electable and moving away from the reputation of the party being a left wing student activist group and terrorist supporters. The next GE theirs to lose.
And now word on the grapevine is that 40 odd MPs are ready to resign from the front bench because of they disagree with Starmer’s stance on a ceasefire. Quite a few labour councillors have already resigned from the party and now stand as independents. Big names like Rayner and Burnham have already stuck their oars in too.
Really cannot believe that a conflict thousands of miles away, albeit tragic, has now assumed more importance than the frightful state of the country. That these people are quite happy to throw away the progress that’s been made electorally for the sake of a frankly almost unsolvable conflict that’s lasted 70 plus years and is incredibly complex whilst the country is rapidly falling apart and in desperate need of change.
If Starmer resigns over this, no way will I ever vote Labour again and I say this as a life long labour voter for the last 35 years. Thought we’d seen the last of Corbyn and his vote losing influence but nope, there he is, with his little pet project, destined to scupper yet another GE for Labour. Anyone feel the same way ?

By all accounts, the Labour Party have handled this very well. The so-called rebels have made it clear that they’re still supporting Starmer’s leadership and will continue to fight for a Labour victory at the general election. This is simply about an issue they feel really strongly about.

I really get it. We see harrowing pictures on our TVs and we want the slaughter to stop, particularly of children. Hence the call for a ceasefire. And it isn’t exactly a ‘minority’ view, when you consider that the French President, the Pope and the Archbishop of Canterbury (not to mention the UN) have also called for a ceasefire.

Plus, of course, these MPs were under pressure from their constituents to support the SNP amendment.

Agreed.

Hama's will never put down their guns until they control the whole of Israel.

UN and WHO are calling for a Humanitarian ceasefire.

Hamas is very limited in what it can do now.

People seem to think a ceasefire would mean IDF pulling out of Gaza or putting down their guns.... they'll still be soldiering and will be able to deal with Hamas, whilst the sick, injured and children are moved.

I don't support Labour on this at all.

People who are calling for a ceasefire either have no understanding of the issue or are anti Semitic.

Hamas will not rest until there is no more Israel. They are not interested in negotiating. Israel has made several previous offers of independence for Palestine but they are always rejected because hamas puts ideology ahead of human life, Hamas are democratically elected, their leaders are millionaires and live in Cairo.

Starmer knows all this and is not antisemitic therefore doesn't support a ceasefire . He does support humanitarian pauses as he cares more about the Palestinians than their own government does

@WillowCraft ha ha that old chestnut, criticise Israel and you re an anti Semitic.... this is why we are where we are in the ME now...

Would you support Russia going into Ukraine and doing what Israel is doing to the Ukrainians? doubtless Russia could if they really wanted too.

I'd like you to explain to me what is the difference between a ceasefire and humanitarian pause? a phrase that i don't believe has ever been used in a conflict before.....

Ceasefires aren't usually forever, they can just be for 48 hours, all the IDF has to do stop blowing up civilians, allow in some fuel, meds etc, instead they ve just destroyed the water supply.

They want all of Hamas gone, even if that means 1m deaths.... would you support this? & if not how many Palestinian deaths are too many?

This 💯

Not at all my point! Calling for a ceasefire, which Hamas will not observe, is suicide for the Israelis. Labour's perspective on the issue, given that they are not in government, is completely irrelevant. It is about signalling "we're the good guys here". For the record, it is the Palestinians who have (twice) turned down the two-state option.

My point was that it seems a pity that a decent (or better) chance of Labour becoming the next government is likely to be compromised by a branch of the PLP, who are casting themselves themselves as the UK branch of the Muslim Brotherhood, and I am sure you don't need me to point out that solid Arab states, including Egypt, have prohibited them.

Israel are allowing breaks for relief, and letting everyone know when they are and when they will end. As far as I can see, everybody is playing very dirty games, and the civilian population is suffering. Even Iran has announced today that Hamas are out of order.

So far it hasn’t impacted on Labour’s lead in the polls! A poll today, posted on another thread, shows that their lead over the Tories has increased. Mostly because of their own dramas this week, obviously. It’s taken some of the pressure off Keir Starmer.

Quite.

No one cares about Labour looking statesman like, so whilst i think a ceasefire should happen (Israel has not had any mini pauses) they aren't even listening to the Americans, let alone an opposition party in London.

Starmer could have just offered a free vote and avoided all this (thats what the Tories would have done, Lab need to be smarter) thankfully, it all coincided with Sunak and the Tories disastrous handling of first Braverman and then Rwanda.

I don't think it will hit their polling short term @LizzieW1969 . But it might when we get closer to the imminent GE. It would influence my thoughts, as I would be voting on UK issues, and a sizeable noisy faction championing Hamas ideals and objectives would give me cold feet. I'll donate to the relief fund for the widows and orphans, but I really don't want the issues playing out here.

Labour have permanently lost my vote. I honestly feel safer with the Conservatives.

Labour want to destroy what little remains of our countryside by building 1.5 MILLION new homes. They intend to achieve this by getting rid of green belt land, and compulsory purchase orders.

They say they are removing the power of rich land owners and giving it back to the people. What they are actually doing is giving even more power to massive property developing companies.

Who are creating the housing crisis in the first place by buying up housing stock in cities, ousting the residents, and replacing the original housing with luxury accommodation.

Oh and they want to undo the progress feminists have made in the last two years by criminalising misgendering.

I honestly feel safer with the Conservatives.

Think again.

https://archive.ph/A5XmF

As a student of history, I'd like to say that Europe had two centuries of theocratic wars, between Christian factions (catholic and protestant) during the 16th and 17th centuries and that the way of life, and the relative peace and prosperity that has resulted, that the UK and Europe enjoy now, that the rest of the world wants to gatecrash, is built on the protections that were fought over, bitterly.

So please, forgive me when I say that I feel strongly that I don't want Hindu-Muslim streetfights in Leicester, or sectional variations of Muslim theology kicking off between Bradford and Preston, or attempts to enact Sharia law courts in London, and definitely not Muslim-Jewish conflict.

If the UK were to suggest prohibition of all and any forms of religious worship and ritual or display, I would be a fervent supporter of that. No religious symbols in public, no head coverings, no crosses. Religion is a scourge on society.

I saw on a website which is very worrying, the 'Settlers' on West Bank province are being armed. Tons of rifles and hand guns are being imported. There has been a surge in house stealing from Palestinians.
I think the Independent carried it but difficult to verify.

If you don't mind me saying @Marthachanged , you really need to back up accusations like that with solid evidence. Like who said what and where. The source of that news, or "rumour". To suggest tons of rifles and handguns are being sent in by I guess you are implying Israel. If you read it on any form of social media, wait for the mainstream press agencies and reputable sources of information to verify the facts before stoking the flames of an incendiary situation.

I totally agree. I hate how religion is now so visible in public life. History tells us that there will be conflict if combined with politics. We know that very well in the U.K.

Thank you @bombastix . I thought I was a lone voice.

It's okay. People on here forget the English used to burn each other because of religion. We killed each other.

I don't want lots of religious awareness in the U.K. I want less.

Third this. Would add face coverings to that list too. Facial expressions are a massive part of human communication. Deliberately concealing it is usually considered sinister but somehow we have to make an exception for a regressive ideology that is almost entirely opposed to our cultural values? Batshit.

It should have always been a case of welcoming people who want to join and integrate and share our culture, regardless of ethnicity, and rejecting those who are not a good fit. Instead we’ve got a teacher in hiding for doing his job, a kid being threatened for defacing a book while his mother is forced to beg for forgiveness while wearing a head covering, and a police force afraid to deal with select grooming gangs because race. Je suis Charlie?

Labour and Cons are both to blame, and I have no faith in any of the other non-loony parties to not make it worse.

I agree to and I’m disgusted that MPs are being compelled to take a certain stance by vocal
minorities who are just that and do not necessarily represent the entire constituency.
@Marthachanged I refer you to the entirely non biased Middle eastern conflict board. This thread is about Labour.

Doesn't just refer to that poster, plenty others are bringing in subjects that have nothing to do with Labour...... i mean we are apparently heading for a religious civil war & we should enforce dress codes on other people!!

Its not just "minorities" calling for a ceasefire, Macron is, the U, Nthe WHO.

So far, no one who is against a CF can explain what is the difference between a 72hr CF and 72 hr Humanitarian pause?

The justification for the civilian deaths by Israel is pretty much how Russia justifies civilian deaths in Ukraine, though the civilian death rate in Gaza is many times higher.

The face covering thing isn't even part of Islam. It stems from a culture of misogyny. Do we even know if women want to be covered up like that, or are they brainwashed from an early age into thinking this is piety by religious leaders/ family pressure?

Surely a ceasefire isn't 72 hours. It's permanent. And it would be one sided. A humanitarian pause is more likely to be agreed to on both sides because Hamas are relying on positive publicity for their future recruitment campaign, so failing to adhere to a ' humanitarian' pause would not do any good. They have long gone from Gaza. They couldnt care less about Gazans so why would they agree to a ceasefire? Israel have made an absolute dogs dinner of this, allowed Hamas to escape and have made themselves into International bad guys. Hamas have already won. My issue with Labour MP's is that they are there to represent their UK constituents. If they are actively throwing away a Labour victory on the altar of a futile gesture then they don't deserve to win. Macron, the UN and the WHO have called for a ceasefire and it hasn't happened. The leader of the UK opposition party calling for a ceasefire will be nothing more than an appeasement to a small portion of Labour Party members. They are not the electorate, nor are they the International community. Starmer has to have an eye on his relationships as Prime Minister.