If you are autistic do people often not answer the question you are asking but give a more generalised answer?

[Hotandsunny]

Just a thought that came to mind. I often find when I ask people questions about something very specific they don't seem to get it and just give you a general answer. I don't know what it is. But I have oftenish been in a situation where people just don't seem to understand what you are asking. So I was wondering if it was an autistic thing.

The example from today was I was doing a school appeal and the school had sent a list of rooms and room sizes as evidence that the school was full. I tried to question the school about what the different rooms were used for, about class sizes and what rooms the 6th form used. All the deputy head could do was repeat that Y7 was full.

I say you haven't answered my question and ask again and get the same reply. A member of the panel says to me I just don't like the reply I'm getting. I don't, because it doesn't answer my question.

This isn't an isolated incident by a long shot.

Not sure the school succeeded but I do find it a shame they would be so disingenuous when this is a little girl's life.

Yet I think those of us having to question multiple times found the lack of an answer rude. And oh yes of course I expect them to do that!

You seem very angry that I'm going through a legitimate process and DD will hopefully get a place at the school that meets her needs. And others can also go for an appeal and if upheld will get a place. That precedent has always been there.

No

Do you understand what happens at a school appeal hearing.

Hint: you are expected to ask questions...

Sometimes people are just going through the motions because that is the official process they have to follow. So the why in terms of school meetings and a school appeal can be just that it's expected as part of their job or part of a process they have to follow in their job. If a person has to be there because that is required of them, but they dont want to give answers or feel your questions are pointless they may well fob you off and do whatever necessary to shut the process down. There are official reasons for things and you are taking those reasons at face value and thinking the other person is there for the right reasons.

You're thinking this meeting is here for us to work out if this is possible and to get questions answered, the other person/people might be there for the same reason or it might be a requirement of their job or of mandated or legislative process they have to follow, Reality is the other party might have zero intent in engaging. Some of those answers you were getting could be shutting the conversation down because they feel it's pointless. It also could be because they don't want to give you anything you need to succeed in your case or they just couldn't care less.

Interestingly the people that keep telling you the school is full are expecting you to take the school at face value and accept they will always tell the truth and always be 100% correct. Parents win some appeals, so there must sometimes be factors that schools haven't considered specific to those individual situations or sometimes incorrect decisions. If the schools were always right there'd be no point in having this process. Maybe they're right in this case, but as a parent or 3 children with SEN you can't assume school will do the right thing by your children and you often have to advocate and fight for the things they are supposed to be enrolled to.

Oh 😞 That does make me sad that they couldn't care less about a little girl's life. I'm just glad I'm not like that...even if I do ask all the annoying.questions! 😂

OP, on your other threads, you’ve mentioned many times that your DD is on the pathway for an autism diagnosis.

I think more hadn't given it a moments thought or rationnalised she'll be fine elsewhere or are thinking of current students, there's many possible reasons. Sometimes it can help to explain the reason behind the question if it feels unconnected, like I'm asking this to find out how you coped with a bigger cohort. Sometimes they've already sorted an answer in their mind and haven't really heard all of the question so it can be good to rephrase and try asking again. If it's something your little girl really needs it's worth fighting for and asking all the "annoying" questions you need to.

Sixth forms use the school quite differently often have separate common areas, won't have a fixed lunchtime and are allowed to leave the school in frees study periods.

Having space in the sixth form doesn't make room for another Yr7.

We won an appeal after our eldest DS was refused a place at our catchment school - the school was oversubscribed and we'd submitted the application a day late. We lived about 70m away from the school, and the alternative school suggested by the local authority was about 7km away.

At appeal, the school was adamant there was absolutely no space and the man from the local authority who represented the school at the appeal was quite vile to us - really nasty. I found it really upsetting.

However DH and I both had an opportunity to speak and to ask questions. My question was: how many children are there in these oversubscribed classes from outside of catchment? They refused to answer. It seemed really unfair to me that numerous children were being driven across town to go to this school, and then children living practically on its doorstep were being refused places on the basis of 'oversubscription'.

Anyway, the panel saw sense and ruled in our favour. I see nothing wrong with asking questions if it makes logical sense to ask them. After all, sometimes the explanations those in authority give us really make no sense.

I understand perfectly well what happens at a school appeal hearing. There is no need for your sarcastic "hint", you're really just coming across as rude, which seems to be your general communication style which is probably why people don't get into things with you.

Hint - there is a difference between asking questions and bulldozing people into giving you exactly what you want, which is what your line of questioning to the school no doubt came across as.

There isn't really much point in trying to explain that further to you though as you seem unable to understand that and just want to argue against anything anyone says if you don't like it/don't agree with it.

Best of luck with your appeal.

This.

There are limited school places and a maximum number for each school in each year group.

You asking what particular rooms are for is completely irrelevant. They might have 2 spare rooms used for drama and art, so what, if the maximum number of pupils for a particular year group is reached then they cannot accept your child. They are busy and you are asking irrelevant questions!

What happened in your appeal? In my opinion, because of the way the school uses the rooms, I think it's entirely relevant to ask about the smaller number of children in the sixth form, freeing up rooms. A school lost several appeals near me some years ago, because it turned out there was theoretically "room" in a part of it that hadn't been accounted for. So personally I think your questions should go in your favour. The school can fudge it's reply, but the decision isn't made by them. (Ps I've never had a diagnosis but always suspected I'm autistic!)
I do understand why people give "vague" answers though. The teacher was trying to shut you down because she didn't like your question.

My ex was like this. It drove me insane. He'd repeat the question until he got the answer he wanted. It was exhausting. It didn't matter if the answer was wrong. In his head he needed a very specific answer even if it made no sense to me. He isn't ND, just incredibly difficult.

Op I think you have misunderstood the appeals process. The first step is the school arguing they are full. If they said they are not you win a place automatically. If the panel accepts they are full then you can argue about detriment to your child versus to the school going over pan.
It is very normal and expected for thr school to be correct in applying their admissions policy. You seem to be stuck on this bit.
Also a dh is senior leadership so your rude attitude of calling them a teacher who you think is out of their depth will come across and not go down well, nor will home schooling if you did not try the allocated school.

They can say they are full end of!!

Your MH doesn't come into it.
Your question was irrelevant, if anything Your appeal should be about why your DD needs to go there not irrelevant questions about another year group.

The school will say they are full as they are up to PAN and that is what determines how many children they should admit. It sounds from their response that this is what the panel chair felt as well. You might not like it or disagree with it but hyper focussing on this point won’t help. You are much more likely to win the appeal by showing why that school is best placed to meet your child’s needs rather than trying to make arguments about classroom arrangements. Hopefully you made some good points along this line and your child will get the place they need.

Although I do think some of the of the discussion on this thread is interesting in terms of thinking about different communication styles, I do think that as part of a formal process such as OP is describing there is the expectation that questions should be answered.

The school have shared rooms and room sizes as part of their justification as to why the school can't accommodate OP's DD, and therefore it would be relevant for the school to answer specific questions related to school numbers and rooms, in order to give the OP a chance to properly challenge the decision.

The question of whether the teacher felt like answering, or predicted where discussion was going, shouldn't really come into it.

It sounds like OP's DD may have missed out on a school place due to an error on the school's part. Therefore I would suggest it is encumbant upon the school to examine their capacity and see if there is a way to accommodate OP's DD in these exceptional circumstances. If they have already done so and the exercise was not fruitful, fine. But it would be appropriate, as part of the appeal process, to fully explain how that decision was reached. OP's question was relevant there.

Hi OP, I teach in a large comprehensive where year 7 is more than full (as in every year 7-11 full plus a few more students who came on EHCP appeals or managed moves etc) but our sixth form is not full.

A year 7 class uses my GCSE/A-level classroom for their tutor time. The tutor has had to put 3 folding exam desks and extra chairs in there for tutor time (we used to have to do the same at the superselective grammar where I taught - up to 34 in a year 7 class there which didn't actually fit the room - fortunately there were normally1 or 2 at individual music or drama lessons).

The corridors are ridiculously crammed. I often can't easily get down them as a teacher. An additional 100 6th formers would make no difference to that. 2 or 3 extras in every KS3 class absolutely does. That's say 3 x 6 x 5 = 90 extra kids in those corridors.

The school, legally, has to hear the appeal. That doesn't mean they have to be happy about the overcrowding and lack of resources. It's not personal to you, although I'm sorry you had a stressful experience.

The most useful thing to do would be to look at last year's admissions booklet for your LA and you will be able to see how many appeals were allowed for that particular school.

As well as the power imbalance between you and the person chairing the appeal, there is a huge power imbalance between the school and the paymasters in Westminster who fund the school buildings!

Rubbish situation with lots of defensive behaviour all round.

If the OP communicates in the same way as she does for people not agreeing with her here, or suggesting the reasons why her questions were met the vague way they were….

If you asked it several times, you were badgering. The focus should have been specifically why that school would be best for your daughter. Not an implied ‘I don’t think you’re using classrooms effectively so I want to check’

If your child is deserving of this above subscription place, perhaps they’re already going above with a child they feel has more need. Perhaps they’re in debt (like so many schools are) and daren’t take on another child who will need extra support.

Why is it this school provides more for your child than another? You said above there were not SEND issues, so what is it that makes this school so good for her? Bearing in mind you clearly think poorly of the people you met already.

Perhaps they have to? Maybe they see it as a formality and don't go into it with a view to actually engaging.

Just as general info, in my large Borough last year, 112 appeals were heard and 4 allowed...so under 4% success rate 😞

I’m a teacher with 35years experience, much of it in a position where I decided on group size/composition. I’m pretty sure I know exactly what there is to it and you are missing key points about how student ability/emotional state/ALN affect size of class. Maybe the rooms have 32 seats and every class of 30 has 2 adults working with ALN students. Maybe the class of 29 has more ALN students so needs more adult seats. Maybe when they are put into sets the children with ALN are distributed differently.
Your assumption you know more than everyone else (shown in ‘there’s much more to it than you think’ here) is rather arrogant. It also shows up what you don’t actually know.

You said earlier that you are home schooling at the moment because the school you were given a place at can’t meet your DD’s needs. I don’t understand how a school can’t meet the needs of a pupil with no particular needs.