To not pay school attendance fine?

[NameChanged456716]

And what happens if I don’t. There is no statutory right to appeal.

i submitted an ‘exceptional leave request’ first week of September, requesting 5 days leave for my 6YO and 8YO daughters. We are in India this week participating in Diwali and the religious functions that lead up to it. It’s not the same in our area the U.K. and we wanted the kids to fully experience their cultural traditions at an age where they wouldn’t miss too much at school, with family and friends that live in India.

the head was meant to respond to let us know whether or not the absence would be authorised and give reasons. We didn’t hear anything and then chased up a few weeks before half term, but no response.

today we got the standard ‘why have your kids not in school email’, which I responded to and finally got confirmation that the absence has not been agreed and so will be unauthorised. No reason given other than they see it as a family holiday.

in our area it’s an automatic fine by the LA if we take kids out for 5 days. I’m a bit annoyed at the lack of communication from the school. We can’t control that Diwali is in term time, it’s only 5 days and this is really important to us as a family.

what would happen if I don’t pay the fines (it’s more the principle that I don’t think we should have to).

in terms of missing education - kids attendance is 100% otherwise and both are greater depth so I do think this week in India is a better experience for them than any impact of missing 5 days of primary school.

On one side I understand why you did it, but I also understand why the school says no and fines for this, because ultimately where would it end if all parents were allowed to do this for every religious reason they felt important.

in addition you could choose to celebrate in the uk, as you have other years, you chose not to as you wished to extend your holiday and celebrate in India, That wasn’t a religious observation in itself. You were also aware the school only gives a set day off to observe religious festivals

so you did what you did as a personal choice. An understandable one, but still a choice and a non religious requirement. As such you should pay

@NameChanged456716 it should be very easy to check with your LA what the procedure is in your area and to see if they can offer any advice in relation to authorising part of the absence for religious reasons.
Schools forward the information to the LA so any appeal should initially go through the school, as they would have to instruct the LA that the fine be revoked.
Also are you still planning your term time trip to Centre Parks later in the year, indictaed in previous thread? as you need to be aware that the Government have now instructed that parents can be fined twice per academic year, again you would have to ask your LA how many sessions it would take to trigger the fine and over what period of time.

This is the problem with the ridiculous lack of flexibility in the system - parents lying. Some still get fined, though, because their children tell the teachers they are going on holiday, or even more stupidly provide evidence on social media. Or alternatively, if not quite enough proof, the school ceases to mark sickness absences as illness unless the parents provide medical evidence, which is exceptionally difficult to do in many cases, so then the parents might get a fine for a succession of unauthorised absences when their child really was ill, instead of the holiday they lied about.

“Proved/not proved” and “just/unjust?”

In English law? Do you have a link to the legal commentary on these potential verdicts please?

I posted to explain to the OP that if she chose not to pay the fine and the LA decided to take further action, in my experience Magistrates have little choice than to allow the LA to add the penalty if there is no justification presented by the parent.

Not sure the details you’ve requested are relevant to the OP or if there is even a document I could point you to which covers all the types of work Magistrates can be involved in. Sorry! It depends on the case, as I explained - the judgement we’re asked to make differs (criminal/civil case/court order/appeal/crown application etc). Hope that helps.

I'm sure there would be untruthful ways around this... Ie saying relative has died and need to attend funeral, illness etc etc

The fine is as a result of falling foul of the rules. If you have (local authority, school etc) then yes, you have to pay.

I thought pupils / students were allowed 2 days for 'religious observance'? I know of someone who used that so her DD could make her first communion in Poland.

I also thought this had to go to a Magistrate's court.

I would be getting your children to write about what they have seen / experienced and then argue it was religious observance and education off site.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1099677/Working_together_to_improve_school_attendance.pdf

p41 gives you the reasons you can give to not be fined.

Happy Diwali.

I understand that the government needs to try to ensure that all children receive the education they deserve.

Obviously tabs should be kept on children who are never going to school.

But fining and threats of prosecution for a few days/weeks holiday for whatever the reason is a step too far. IMO.

Yes. It’s terrible Govt can force parents to hand over their kids to the State for many hours each day.

”Education” is a poor excuse. Parents who want exam passes can get them in another way.

You guys who support Govt in everything it does are going to make us all suffer.

Yes, that’s it exactly. Parents can absolutely give their kids education in another way. They do not have to sign up to state education. There is homeschool and private schooling. The state will not force you to hand your child over to a school for hours a day, unless you fail to ensure they are educated another way. And that’s fair; kids need an access to education and the state absolutely must step in if parents don’t educate, but they absolutely do not demand that you hand your child over if you are home educating.

Why do you think the state is forcing parents to send kids to a state school? That doesn’t happen.

If you do enroll your child in state school then you just abide by their terms and conditions, partly because by using a state school, you are making the state responsible for your child’s education and wellbeing during school hours. So they need to ensure that, which means ensuring your child attends.

Maybe OP had other options.

But don’t you think it’s obscene that she is criminalised for exercising parental choice?

What you have done is to take an Unfair Law, point out to OP how she could have complied, then say therefore the Punishment is justified.

How about considering the validity of the law?

Would you say the same about a woman being imprisoned for going out with her hair uncovered?

If you don’t question laws, ALL Laws, then you end up with Govt doing whatever it likes. That is never pretty.

Should your accountant, solicitor, hairdresser, cleaner be entitled to fine you for not showing up (in excess of payment for the appointment)?

Only Govt commits such abuses.

Its time we start to notice and resist Govt abuse before we reach the levels other populations have suffered, where people become permanently afraid.

Your responses are a little unhinged so there isn’t really any point engaging in a discussion. If you are comparing the state ensuring children receive their education with your hairdressing appointment, then something has gone a bit screwy in your head.

Private schools are very expensive. Most people can’t afford them.

Largely because Govt offered a free alternative, killing the competition, Govt holds 93% of the industry and so dictates industry norms, and even imposes regulatory and compliance burdens on competition.

Low cost alternatives are needed but that is hard with all the headwind from Govt.

Compare it with the supermarket or the estate agent then.

Nothing is more important than food and shelter.

Yeah because it's those evil teachers that make the rules and hold your children hostage, you sound like an idiot.

When the rules are bad, good people don’t obey them.

Its brave to refuse to follow rules, particularly in the authoritarian public sector.

Teachers should not be forced into a position where they must choose between abusing parental rights or risking reprimand.

It isn't teachers. Teachers have no authority over authorisation of absence and don't deal with it at all. Absence is authorised by the Head who has to follow the local authority policy which is dictated by the government. Nothing to do with teachers.

Then Heads should not be placed in that position.

Can’t believe they fine parents for taking kids out of school. I’m in Scotland, we don’t have such nonsense. The experience they will have had from participating in this cultural experience and travelling will probably benefit them just as much as a week in a classroom.

I would complain to the LA about the lack of response to your request and state you won’t be paying on that basis.

I understand that the government needs to try to ensure that all children receive the education they deserve.

I'd agree if it wasn't for the past few years.

Talk to the government about it. It's their rule.

I totally agree with you on the principle, but just suck it up and pay it. Don’t worry about it and enjoy your trip!

Yes I mean I have a child who's had no access to a suitable education for years due to his needs not being met by the state. Wish I could fine the government in all honesty. Especially as I've been unable to work as a result.

But I understand the reasoning behind them having rules in place. As someone explained to me once before that some parents keep their kids out of school to work for the family business, or there used to be a safeguarding concern, etc.

*There IS a safeguarding concern (I don't know how to edit)