To not pay school attendance fine?

[NameChanged456716]

And what happens if I don’t. There is no statutory right to appeal.

i submitted an ‘exceptional leave request’ first week of September, requesting 5 days leave for my 6YO and 8YO daughters. We are in India this week participating in Diwali and the religious functions that lead up to it. It’s not the same in our area the U.K. and we wanted the kids to fully experience their cultural traditions at an age where they wouldn’t miss too much at school, with family and friends that live in India.

the head was meant to respond to let us know whether or not the absence would be authorised and give reasons. We didn’t hear anything and then chased up a few weeks before half term, but no response.

today we got the standard ‘why have your kids not in school email’, which I responded to and finally got confirmation that the absence has not been agreed and so will be unauthorised. No reason given other than they see it as a family holiday.

in our area it’s an automatic fine by the LA if we take kids out for 5 days. I’m a bit annoyed at the lack of communication from the school. We can’t control that Diwali is in term time, it’s only 5 days and this is really important to us as a family.

what would happen if I don’t pay the fines (it’s more the principle that I don’t think we should have to).

in terms of missing education - kids attendance is 100% otherwise and both are greater depth so I do think this week in India is a better experience for them than any impact of missing 5 days of primary school.

There are Divali celebrations right here in the UK. Absolutely zero need to go abroad to mark it

I find it unbelievable that any right thinking person thinks going to primary school for 5 days is more important, in any way at all, than celebrating a religious festival as a rare event in the country of your heritage.

And no, it's not the same celebrating it in this country, it just isn't.

The DfE spouts crap on a frequent basis. Parents should be free to disagree with the crap and put complaints about it. And certainly let the school know they disagree. How will they know otherwise? How are things going to change?

Is the school an Academy, Foundation or Voluntary Controlled school? If they are, then you can file a complaint or question the fine with the school governors, outlining your reasons for taking the children out of school, and explaining that you gave plenty of notice and chased the Head for a response, you couldn't wait indefinitely so booked everything as the Head wouldn't give you an answer.

If the school is a community or voluntary controlled school, you should be able to take this up with the Council, again outlining your reasons.

In either case I do not think you are being unreasonable. These days, everyone is expected to make allowances for people's religion's and beliefs. Schools in particular are expected not to single out children of a different culture so you could say you are being victimised because of this. At the end of the day, Divali is a part of your culture and celebrating it back home is key to your children's learning and development.

Definitely dispute it, formally and make sure to keep a note of dates and times of phone calls, who you spoke to, what was asked/advised etc.

Good luck.
P.S. someone I know reluctantly paid their fine but did it all in 1p pieces!

sorry this has happened to you. Most schools do this now. I would agree you need to pay it though, they will double it and pass to debt collectors.

My child is physically disabled, they issued a fine for him going to respite., its so over subscribed, they could only offer him term time. He went there to use the hydrotherapy, and amazing facilities, we don't know his life expectancy so for me it was important he had that time to relax, also I am a full time carer and my back needed a break.

I thought it was unreasonable to issue me a fine. That's what they do though.

You've done the right thing by you family, and you know that, just pay it and move on.

Why shouldn't your daughters experience your culture, I think its fair enough to take them, what a great experience for them. I have been to India and remember seeing some celebrations, its am amazing place. Also helps us in the west to understand how fortunate we are as I did see a lot of poverty there, this was 20 years ago though!

Basically pay it or dont. But not paying it wont lead to an appeal type of scenario where you are let off. I'd map out the pros and cons of paying vs the stress and costs of you dont. The process for not paying and what happens then should he possible to find on google

Does it end up in court of you don't pay? Otherwise no one would.

So you could allow it to escalate to court and fight your case there on religious grounds? Depends of you can afford it if you lose

It’s a fine in lieu of criminal prosecution, so if you don’t pay the fine after they have doubled it, you will be taken to court and risk getting a criminal record. So, if you refuse to pay, you have to be willing to go to court, and definitely don’t let it go that far and then just not bother to respond or turn up.

But whether you think it is nonsense or not Department of Education includes religious observance as one of the authorised reasons for absence.

Having this, even for one day of religious observance, would mean less unauthorised absence and no fine. Guidance linked above in the thread.

@DahliaJ - the whole five days would not be authorised as a religious absence, regardless, and it looks like many councils view it as unnecessary to have any time off school for Diwali on the basis the celebrations in the UK are mainly held in the evening, after school hours, so it is not cut and dried that time off must be granted for it. That said, if a Local Authority only fines for holidays of five days and above, you would only need to persuade a school to classify one of those days as for religious observance to avoid a fine for the other days.

(as you already pointed out)

I’d be happy to argue in court, or pay a solicitor to…based on the argument it wasn’t clearly unauthorised in advance, and we had reason to believe it might be classed as religious absence.

Can afford a fine and/or legal fees.

Can’t afford a criminal record if I lose though.

Magistrates aren't typically impressed by that sort of argument. They are liable to point out that, on your own admission, you had zero reason to believe that the school had authorised the absence. They are also liable to point out that you can't have seriously believed that this would be allowed for religious reasons, otherwise a proportion of the school population would disappear every year for Diwali and it just doesn't happen.

If you won'd want a criminal conviction, just pay the fine and forget about this.

It is a ridiculous situation, @NameChanged456716 . I have every sympathy - in a sensible world, there would be no risk of you being fined for that particular trip, let alone getting a criminal record over it. Have you raised your argument with the school? It’s worth trying politely to persuade the school to change its stance for this once-in-a-lifetime trip, but imvho, not worth the aggravation of refusing to pay a fine in lieu of prosecution. It’s not fun to have to explain to an employer you need time off work to defend yourself in court.

I did go back to the school but school have just said it’s not been authorised and they have had to pass details to the LA due to the length of the absence being 5 days, and the LA will issue a fine. Their ‘policy’ on applying for exceptional circumstances authorisation is very vague and just says the head will decide whether to authorise based on the circumstances but gives no timescale.

Next time, just call in sick from abroad. Play them at their own game.

Wish I’d just done this!

Whilst it's is totally ridiculous it's probably just easier to pay the fine and enjoy the rest of your break.
The rules are ridiculous but ot appears that schools and the LA have no interest in looking at requests that may be in the best interests of the child.
Fight it if you have the energy, people have tried and ended up losing both time and significant amount of money after court battles

Not worth it. It’s humiliating being caught out in a lie. The school I work in has caught out and fines have been issued to parents who lied (their children said they were going on holiday). Parents known to have lied without the school having enough proof can be asked to provide medical evidence for all future absences, without which those absences will be marked as unauthorised. It just creates unnecessary hassle to lie and, as a point of principle, it is very silly to teach your children to lie about things like this. Don’t lose the moral high ground when you can afford not to.

Most schools have an office that log attendance matters, and teachers and TAs that actually spend the day with the children. You’ll only get “caught out” if the teacher or TA is a bit of a jobsworth and goes to report the fact that the child has rumbled a lie. In a family with otherwise excellent attendance this would be shitty behaviour. Most teaching staff have no interest in parents getting fines, remember many are parents themselves and see the unfairness in these cases.

Wow.

Tyrannical little dictators. That’s obscene.

For those who are want our bloated State to grow still further - this ALWAYS happens when you give bureaucrats power over others. Don’t give power to Govt.

That’s true. It’s only the parents who complain loudly about their child’s school or teachers all the time whose lies are likely to get reported, funnily enough - or those whose attendance is generally bad and are on the school’s radar for more than one reason. I still think the whole fining parents for absences thing has gone too far, though, in that so many schools just blanket refuse them, however genuinely exceptional the reasons given.

I work in a school and we would have authorised this as Religious observance to be honest