To not pay school attendance fine?

[NameChanged456716]

And what happens if I don’t. There is no statutory right to appeal.

i submitted an ‘exceptional leave request’ first week of September, requesting 5 days leave for my 6YO and 8YO daughters. We are in India this week participating in Diwali and the religious functions that lead up to it. It’s not the same in our area the U.K. and we wanted the kids to fully experience their cultural traditions at an age where they wouldn’t miss too much at school, with family and friends that live in India.

the head was meant to respond to let us know whether or not the absence would be authorised and give reasons. We didn’t hear anything and then chased up a few weeks before half term, but no response.

today we got the standard ‘why have your kids not in school email’, which I responded to and finally got confirmation that the absence has not been agreed and so will be unauthorised. No reason given other than they see it as a family holiday.

in our area it’s an automatic fine by the LA if we take kids out for 5 days. I’m a bit annoyed at the lack of communication from the school. We can’t control that Diwali is in term time, it’s only 5 days and this is really important to us as a family.

what would happen if I don’t pay the fines (it’s more the principle that I don’t think we should have to).

in terms of missing education - kids attendance is 100% otherwise and both are greater depth so I do think this week in India is a better experience for them than any impact of missing 5 days of primary school.

By law they have to give you time off for religious observations

I voted unreasonable, because there is a chance that by the school regulations it would be impossible to approve of that absence for that reason.
I am not unsympathetic though. I can see how it would be an important opportunity for both your children and your family back in India.
I had something similar happening to us, and it was just an half day at the end of the term. I was really annoyed that they would not reply to me, after reminding them several times, because it felt like such as small thing to concede, given DS had a record of 100% attendance for three years in a row.
But then, staff told me that it was impossible for the headmistress to approve of that. Essentially they were not getting back to me to avoid having to tell me explicitly not to do it, I think.

Recently, he went back three days late, because of a long holiday in Asia to visit relatives. His current school was actually supportive, and very kind about it. I informed them months in advance asking for the teachers to please provide advice on what topics to study while abroad, so to make up for the missed lessons.
So, maybe that helped.

But I think they still technically marked the days as missed for no good reason, they cannot do otherwise.
So, I would pay.

I suspect that the YANBU/YABU vote reveals clear racism in the Mumsnet profile.
Has Mumsnet management carried out any systematic research to analyse the profile its readership? I despair at the attitudes revealed in some posts.
I am now in my 80th year, and it is heartbreaking for me to see that the attitudes which my generation fought to overthrow in the social revolutions of the 60's are still rampant in the 21st century. Please embrace the diverse multicultural tapestry that many of us strove to create.

I would appear. This is so unfair, it is beneficial to their family dynamics / culture and religion.
the teachers all get to close at the drop of a hat.
I do believe you can be fined and when I took my child out of school for a family holiday I too duly got a letter but I wrote back to them listing all the times school had been closed due to strike, baker days, teacher illness, this amounted to more than my child had missed.
I never heard from them again

That should say appeal

Check the school absence policy. It should specify (i) how authorisation should be requested and (ii) the timescale for receiving a response. If you complied with the policy and the school did not, then it seems unreasonable to fine you. I don't know what the process would be for getting the fine overturned, though.

I wouldn't just ignore the fine, though. In your place I would probably contact the school and the local authority, providing evidence of your request and citing the school policy assuming it supports your case, and ask for the fine to be cancelled, or failing that for guidance on how to appeal plus how to proceed next time.

THIS

Because too many children are missing school. It is the government putting this on schools, not schools choosing to have to put parents under scrutiny.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/working-together-to-improve-school-attendance

I took my son out of secondary school for 2 days to attend a Marxist conference. I explained that he was being educated elsewhere and school authorised this. I think you could have the same argument that the children are being educated elsewhere as this is a huge cultural and religious event.

You'll be chased for the debt by the local authority. The school gains nothing from this and has no input into it

And you don't have to access the free education the state offers

You knowingly broke the law, why wouldn’t you pay the fine?

Every kid of same age who's family celebrates it should then be able to take 5 days off and so should others who celebrate occasions not celebrated locally to them.

No point going to the areas that do celebrate them in the UK.

Bull! Utter rubbish! People have fair and balanced arguments. There is no room for racism but don’t look for it where it isn’t either!

I think, although I’m not 100% sure, that travellers/gypsies have a register code for when they move around because the moving from place to place is itself a cultural thing.

So, for example a Muslim child would be allowed the day off for Eid but the school won’t authorise a day either side to travel to grandmas and back because that isn’t a requirement of the faith- they can meet their religious obligations at home/local mosque.

Where as being here for this season, there for that season, somewhere else again for a fair is an integral element of travelling culture.

There are far too many grey areas within this for the school to be given the authority to make these decisions. It’s obviously being applied inconsistently across schools so people are being treated differently. They should just monitor attendance levels and flag accordingly if it drops. It’s absolute nonsense.

Really sorry. I get why this was important to you. But I think you're just going to have to pay the fine. The government don't give a shit about family unless they've died and its for a funeral.

Thanks for your reply I'm sure you are correct. Mine was just a thought.

Agree

It’s the attitude that schools should not really have authority to make these decisions that has resulted in blanket unauthorised absences being issued by many schools. Then they can’t be accused of inappropriate exercise of discretion, as they just refuse to authorise anything over the bare minimum permitted in law, which is the very definition of not exercising discretion. The OP asked for far more than the bare minimum.

It’s a good point, and actually I think the op should have had the absence authorised on the basis that it is important and educational for the children to experience the religious festival in the place of their cultural origin. Christian children get to celebrate Christmas in a Christian country every year, I don’t think anyone wanting the same experience for their children sometimes is unreasonable.

OK
You should not be paying a fine on the time off

First Write a letter to the school challenging them on the unauthorised absence
Tell them the time they were off school because you were educating them other than at school
The celebrations you went to were educational and if they want them to prove it do a project book showing what they did and what they learned (I used to do this anyway so they could remember it) school work is done in books and folders so it's just proving they learnt stuff

See if you can add quite a bit that they do not know thus showing the extra educating they had

You are legally allowed to educate them other than at school and they are not meant to treat it as an unauthorised absence

I home educated my eldest for the reception and half year 1 because there were no school places available in the area (almost twice the amount of children were born her year) and for the last 4 years due to bullying and a failing school with the teachers leaving in droves and no replacement hired

I used the EOTAS education other than at school for my younger children for many home education trips and workshops plus trips to educational events, museum, art galleries, theatre and even to crufts where they we did some lectures
If you can find an educational reason it should not be rejected
Mine never was, even though the head teacher tried to reject it I told her I would contact the educational authority to tell them they were trying to stop them being EOTAS

Hope this helps

Just pay the fine. I totally agree both that the kids probably benefited a lot from the trip, and that the school should have let you know whether it was authorised or not before you left. However that doesn't change the fact that you still did take the kids out knowing that you might get fined, so it's ok you got fined. There are lots of things were people know they might qualify for something, but it doesn't mean they can just use/have it. Say like if someone claims for a benefit they have to be given it straight away because they "may qualify", or people have to be allowed to use disabled parking spaces, because they "probably qualify for a blue badge". You might as give everyone benefits and blue badges now!

It’s free at the point of access like the NHS but we all FUND it through the taxes we pay thank you very much. It’s not really free.
The school should have the decency to respond.

Make a formal complaint on the basis of religious/ethnic discrimination.

Seriously? People do spout nonsense. You can celebrate a religious holiday without going abroad for two weeks..........