To not pay school attendance fine?

[NameChanged456716]

And what happens if I don’t. There is no statutory right to appeal.

i submitted an ‘exceptional leave request’ first week of September, requesting 5 days leave for my 6YO and 8YO daughters. We are in India this week participating in Diwali and the religious functions that lead up to it. It’s not the same in our area the U.K. and we wanted the kids to fully experience their cultural traditions at an age where they wouldn’t miss too much at school, with family and friends that live in India.

the head was meant to respond to let us know whether or not the absence would be authorised and give reasons. We didn’t hear anything and then chased up a few weeks before half term, but no response.

today we got the standard ‘why have your kids not in school email’, which I responded to and finally got confirmation that the absence has not been agreed and so will be unauthorised. No reason given other than they see it as a family holiday.

in our area it’s an automatic fine by the LA if we take kids out for 5 days. I’m a bit annoyed at the lack of communication from the school. We can’t control that Diwali is in term time, it’s only 5 days and this is really important to us as a family.

what would happen if I don’t pay the fines (it’s more the principle that I don’t think we should have to).

in terms of missing education - kids attendance is 100% otherwise and both are greater depth so I do think this week in India is a better experience for them than any impact of missing 5 days of primary school.

Really?

You feel no responsibility to call out as laws?

You are why bad laws happen.

Pay the fine, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to want your kids to experience a real Diwali in India but you have to accept that in doing so you’ve got a fine.

I agree.

Also OP, you must know the argument is unreasonable in that approving it would mean letting everyone take time off to travel abroad for religious reasons with family. Like you said, you can celebrate Diwali in the UK its just not the same. And then everyone goes down a slippery slope of privilege and why we cant all take time off to celebrate with family or why are we penalized by not having family abroad as our reason?

I haven’t read the whole thread, so apologies if someone has already said this.

A few years ago I took my dd on holiday during term time, for various reasons I felt justified in doing this.
Anyway I received the fine in the post, with instructions that if I didn’t pay I would be taken to court.
I wanted to have my say in court, so I didn’t pay.
Long story short, they don’t want to take you to court.
I just had to sign a form to say I would never do it again (I lied)!

Pay the fine.
And best not to do it again.

It's not a pick and mix, it's education.

Heads have spoken up about this government's attendance rules for years. They are ineffective and onerous- all about data and not about intervention. Typical Tory policy - collect data, beat up public services, don't provide intervention funding to help.

Did you read the OP and her explanation and significance of the religious festival/ family circumstances?

incredibly rude and patronising to say it's not a pick and mix!

Challenge it, they should of responded in time.

It makes me mad, schools do not own children - like a society prison!

I suppose from school's perspective if they allow this it opens door for a lot of other requests.

It's not the school's fault, they don't impose the fines, and they have to comply with the rules when deciding whether to authorise absence.

The problem is, the overwhelming majority of people DO think children should be in education. Which is what this is about. Those who don't have other options.

Neither do parents. Children are entitled to an education. Its a shame some parents dont agree.

Saying your child has 100% attendance and is very bright is irrelevant. Are you saying a child who has been off ill due to bad luck or is less bright than average is less worthy of a holiday in term time? You're not special, just pay the fine.

So glad I don’t live in England, what those kids will have learned and experienced in those 5 days will far exceed 5 days in a classroom. I would fight this, you asked and no one responded. I know you would have taken them anyway, but it is not the point.

This comment is just wilfully obtuse. Of course the OP isn't saying that their children are more "worthy of a holiday". They are simply saying that a) the kids' overall attendance is good so it isn't like they have already missed tons of school this year, and b) they are doing well academically so it isn't as if time out of school will make them fall further behind.

@NameChanged456716 I would argue it was a religious reason for absence but a ‘holiday’ & also check very carefully what the expected response time between your request & school authorising, or not in this case, the absence.
If the council fine after more than 5 days off you should be ok.
what you do now to extra cover your backs is you encourage your kids to do a show & tell for their class to show then what they did during the celebrations in India. That way it has also been documented as a learning trip.
These fines are an absolute pile of crap.

Coming from an ex-teacher- the school aren’t doing it to penalise you. They have a legal obligation to send the fines and are not allowed to authorise holiday absences (for any reasons). The fines come from the local authority and not the school themselves, they are just the ones who have to play bad cop and do the paperwork!

I do think that if my child had already missed school due to illness and/or was working below the expected level then they would be at a greater disadvantage taking a ‘holiday in term time’ on top of this, and I would hesitate more choosing to take them out for 5 days as they would fall further behind. Not for this trip but for future holidays / Center Parcs weekends etc. If a child is already ahead because they haven’t missed any school then less of a problem IMO.

Fight it all the way. Your children, your decision. State schools have to accommodate those they are serving. Accuse them of racism. Threaten them with legal action and the news media. they will back down. That's the way it seems to work these days ...

I’m surprised you didn’t get it authorised for a religious festival tbh but you should pay up. It is not worth the escalation or the potential prosecution and legal fees if you dig in. I’d pay but then complain to the school.

You need to quickly email the school head and cc governors and I’d cc the Local Authority too, setting out two grounds as to why the fine\intention to fine is not based in evidence and therefore is not under the law:

1. that you applied for authorisation, and as religious observation provides grounds for authorisation, your reasonable expectation was that it would be authorised. If the school failed to completely adhere to its own policy, then they cannot issue the fine to you. It sounds like they didn’t.
2. that the consequence of the misapplication of the school’s policy is indirect racial discrimination. Christian children will celebrate festivals precious to them as school will close at Easter and Christmas. As Hindus or Sikhs, or Janas, you can only celebrate this important religious festival by taking children out of school. You are indirectly suffering a fine or worse because of your religion, and that is discriminatory. Schools have a duty to conduct their activity in a way which doesn’t discriminate.

I would ask them to explain how this decision meets these criteria and perhaps they can confirm their intention to withdraw this notification clearly made in error.

They're not being racist.
It is very disappointing that you'd suggest a false allegation be made because of a fine?

Happy Diwali and may you get love from everyone (even the school!)

The fine will be doubled if you don't pay. The local authority will pursue this. The governing body will be holding the headteacher to account over all attendance matters and will be supporting them in implementing the school's attendance policy in every case.
I knew someone who refused to pay, fine got doubled so he complained to the governors. He made a big song and dance about it in the playground. The governors did not uphold the complaint and he had to pay £480. It was very humiliating for the family, particularly as everyone knew they'd lied to the school and the children dropped them in it when they returned all excited about their holiday.

Yep all of this.