To tell you the Scottish Govt are targeting 18 year old girls for egg harvesting

[VestaTilley]

Yes, really.

Surrogacy Concern broke the news on Friday night. I can’t actually believe it.

Over a month to come, the Scottish Govt are asking for egg and sperm donors as young as 18 to come forward in a series of targeted ads on social media and the radio. They’ve expanded IVF provision and - in their own words - have a supply and demand issue.

I’d heard of fertility clinics advertising (bad enough in my view) but for a national Govt to do this to women is staggering. Women can die from complications arising from OHSS, which can be caused by egg donation. A British woman died in 2006 as a result.

The ads don’t mention these risks; it’s all “be kind” “do something amazing”. I cannot actually believe a Govt could be this stupid. They’ve only just apologised for forced adoption!

AIBU?

I don't know ANYONE who would respond like this to a trans woman seeking support after sexual assault

Respond like what? Wanting a female only space to recover from male violence? I would, and when these places have actually bothered to ask women what they want, most of them do too.

Because most women do not want to share therapy for sexual violence with strange men. You are unusual in being ok with men in that context.

But do you honestly believe that in the long term you can turn back the clock on all this? It all seems so futile.

It's all just assertions and bluster, from someone who doesn't really know what she's talking about. It's not remotely convincing to anyone 🤷‍♀️

My goodness, #OperationLetThemSpeak is delivering solid gold this afternoon!

https://rapecrisis.org.uk/about-us/why-women-girls/

97% of people think that rape victims should be able to access single sex support services.

Do Rape Crisis exclude trans women from their services?

I'm not trying to convince anyone. You're a small group who talk only to yourselves and are doomed to fail.

DOOMED

Sorry, that's not true. You're very good at getting your message out there in the right wing press. But policy wise you're on a hiding to nothing.

I'm not trying to convince anyone.

That's good, because you're not very good at it.

HIDING

I want to turn the clock forward to create a world where women's safety and dignity is valued; as part of that, I don't want human beings treated as a commodity.

Maybe I won't manage it in my lifetime (although, if you were born in 1982, I'm younger than you, just sayin') but that doesn't mean it's not a worthwhile goal. I don't care if you scoff, because you're someone who thinks babies can't form memories. You're no different from the people who insisted newborn babies couldn't feel pain in the 70s and 80s.

@PP82 it's just boring now, hearing your uninformed, misogynistic assertions over and over. I refer you to my response on Weds at 8.44pm:

That's nearly the whole bingo card.

There is no "wrong side of history". It's not teleologically moral. The passage of time is simply the passage of time. Things can get worse and they can get better, or they can stay the same. Sometimes things get worse after they get better, and I would argue that's what's happened to women's rights.

History is written by the victors, which I suppose is what you mean. I don't consider that you're either well informed, in touch with what most people think, or particularly able to think critically and grasp other people's points of view, so I'm not particularly fussed about what you pontificate about it.

Go well.

I absolutely understand your point of view. I just think it's ludicrous and abhorrent. When I argue with racists, or nationalists, or homophobes I know it's futile. I usually don't waste my energy. Sometimes I feel compelled to disagree with their hate. Same here. But you're right. It's boring now.

Where I live the far right have tried and so far failed to push back trans rights. In the UK, crap though Labour are generally, you're unlikely to succeed in policy terms once this government are finally booted out.

Donor eggs will continue to be used until synthetic eggs render them unnecessary.

There's no more to say.

Doc Stock has got an excellent article in Unherd on the woman who started Vagine Monologues, I think she's going by 'V' now. Anyone who's been following this thread might want to have a read. In fact, anyone who hasn't should read it too. She's a brilliant writer.

Sorry, don't have a link but google Unherd and it'll be easy enough to find. If you don't want to, that's fine.

I find the racist, homophobic and misogynistic view of Gender Ideologists such as you abhorrent and yes, you have demonstrated all the above in your posts on this thread.

I find it equally abhorrent that someone who thinks biological sex is meaningless and Gender Identity trumps all deems it their right to exploit someone on the basis of biological sex.

https://unherd.com/2023/11/the-climax-of-the-vagina-monologues/

According to PP82 babies will soon be grown in bags, no doubt to special order for those that can afford them and will have a list of characteristics they require - eye colour, hair colour, skin colour but what on earth are they going to do on the vexed question of sex of the baby? Will the growing company have the necessary tools to implant the correct Gender Identity after all that is all the counts? Presumably the buyers will be able to get a refund if said baby doesn't quite match all they had requested or maybe have it exchanged as faulty goods.

What a Brave New World.

There's echos of this thread in that article.

And 'V' just makes me think of that old TV series. If I meet her and she doesn't gobble down a guinea pig whole, I'm going to be very disappointed.

Presumably the buyers will be able to get a refund if said baby doesn't quite match all they had requested or maybe have it exchanged as faulty goods.

”Hello, I’d like to return this teenager.”
”Certainly madam, what seems to be the problem?”
”We wanted a queer child, you see. Very
fashionable you see, and would totally fit our ethos.”
”And this one?”
”Completely gender conforming and has no interest in dying their hair blue or coming out as trans. Most disappointing. In fact, we fear she’s going to be gender critical.”
”I quite understand. Cash refund or a credit note?”

I find it equally abhorrent that someone who thinks biological sex is meaningless and Gender Identity trumps all deems it their right to exploit someone on the basis of biological sex.

Quite. The cognitive dissonance is real.

It;s not inconsistent. Both attitudes involve thinking of women as commodities.

It;s not inconsistent. Both attitudes involve thinking of women as commodities.

That's a good point, but pretending biological sex is completely irrelevant while knowing which sex can give you which type of gamete is the dissonance. Maybe dishonesty, rather than genuine dissonance.

^And if that is how one feels, it's such a debilitating consequence of one's experiences that it requires immediate and intensive therapy.

Do you not think that perhaps such therapy, in a group setting, was what Sarah wanted a single-sex space for?

I wouldn't want to discuss my rapes with a strange male because unfortunately some men are aroused by women talking about sexual assault and I want there to be zero chance of a bloke popping a boner whilst I describe what my assailants did.

Let's approach this from another angle.

In the gay district near me is a sauna that is explicitly male-only, as in "no cock, no entry". I remind you that sexual activity is not a need.

Should these gay men have a right to their male-only space?

• If not, you're a homophobe.
• If yes, but you also think that Sarah Summers, a female rape victim, shouldn't get a needed female-only trauma-informed rape counseling service, then you are a misogynist.

Pick one. Neither's a good look.