To tell you the Scottish Govt are targeting 18 year old girls for egg harvesting

[VestaTilley]

Yes, really.

Surrogacy Concern broke the news on Friday night. I can’t actually believe it.

Over a month to come, the Scottish Govt are asking for egg and sperm donors as young as 18 to come forward in a series of targeted ads on social media and the radio. They’ve expanded IVF provision and - in their own words - have a supply and demand issue.

I’d heard of fertility clinics advertising (bad enough in my view) but for a national Govt to do this to women is staggering. Women can die from complications arising from OHSS, which can be caused by egg donation. A British woman died in 2006 as a result.

The ads don’t mention these risks; it’s all “be kind” “do something amazing”. I cannot actually believe a Govt could be this stupid. They’ve only just apologised for forced adoption!

AIBU?

It does occur to me that exploitation under capitalism is a bad thing, that's why I've spent my life opposing capitalism.

Sex work is actual work. How does it commodity women's bodies any more than any manual labour?

You are unlikely to be raped in public, and much more likely to be raped in a private space.

Capitalism is a system by which the ruling class oppress us from the top down. It is not the sum total of lots of individual actions.

When someone's "work" results in schoolgirls in uniform being propositioned for sex and chased through the streets by men, it should be shut down. Prostitution harms all women and girls.

https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/chilling-threats-taunts-schoolchildren-encounter-19255067

So rumours then.

Approaching children for sex should definitely be illegal.

Nope. Knowledge.

It does occur to me that exploitation under capitalism is a bad thing, that's why I've spent my life opposing capitalism.

But you'll buy the gametes to make your baby? You don't see how that's a capitalist, individualist act?

Sex work is actual work. How does it commodity women's bodies any more than any manual labour?

Because you don't do any other job with your vagina or anus. Because no other job can make you pregnant. Because men are seldom commodified in this way. Because it's exclusively men doing the commodifying. Because no other job has thrush, bacterial vaginosis, and cystitis as predictable consequences.

You are unlikely to be raped in public, and much more likely to be raped in a private space.

Last sexual assault: a train carriage. Last rape threat: walking home from the supermarket.

Capitalism is a system by which the ruling class oppress us from the top down. It is not the sum total of lots of individual actions.

The ruling class act selfishly, often with weapons to take land by force, and over a long period of time accumulate wealth and land that they can use to be even more selfish at larger scale. Result: capitalism. Totally the consequence of the behaviour I described.

"Everyone knows that..." wasn't acceptable when writing my dissertation and I don't accept it here.

The article about children being propositioned by punters is evidence of harm caused when men are allowed to buy sex. You don't get to side-step that by saying that propositioning kids should be illegal. It already is (see §15a), yet that didn't stop those punters.

'But you'll buy the gametes to make your baby? You don't see how that's a capitalist, individualist act?'

The food I buy under capitalism is the result of a system of global exploitation. Should I only eat food I've grown myself? I mean I need food to live, but I don't need any particular food. I don't need coffee to live. It was produced using other people's bodies. Should I give up coffee?

Lots of jobs involve an element of physical risk. What is so special about the vagina or anus? All the conditions you mentioned can result from sex generally, regardless of whether you are paid.

Capitalism is not just the sum total of lots of different transactions happening among the working class.

Sounds like that particular scheme may have had flaws, particularly in terms of location.

Tbh I'd prefer that sex workers were allowed to operate co ops, working out of premises, not on the streets.

18 isn’t a girl.
it also is asking for male donors.
no one is forcing anyone.

your title is inflammatory and misleading.

I think the public massively overestimate the chances of getting a baby from freezing your eggs. I recently went to a fertility conference for work, I wish I could remember the stats for live births from frozen eggs but I can't - but they were not high. I think fluffy media articles about celebs doing it has made people think it's like putting your wages in the bank and taking them out next month.It's more like burying your wages in the garden, it might work out but quite likely not.

This thread is a beautiful example of #OperationLetThemSpeak 🙌

If something is permitted by law, it's a legal right.

That is such an odd assertion.

No. This is not how laws work. This is not how human rights work. This is not how anything works.

Your logic is all over the place, PP.

Around 35%, according to this study.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10342811/

I've also found a company that buys eggs from women and sells them, which I won't link to.

They advertise a rate of 37% of live births, so that seems roughly consistent with above study.

That's putting an optimistic spin on 63% miscarriages and stillbirths.

Well, that includes failures at various stages, so not all of them will be miscarriages and stillbirths.

'The mean egg thaw survival rate post egg thaw was 74%. The mean egg fertilisation rate was 67%. The pregnancy rate achieved per embryo transfer was 48% and the live birth rate per embryo transfer was 35%.'

Thanks for the clarification. I suspect if a woman goes through the procedure to have an embryo(I'm assuming they're fertilised first) implanted, and it doesn't 'take', it'll feel, emotionally, little different to a miscarriage. Even if, technically, they're not the same. But it's good they're being upfront about the odds.

It seems a brutal road to start down; physically, emotionally and financially.

So, all hormonal contraception?

Let's put it another way.

There isn't a job that requires a man to put his dick at risk. Why is it OK for a woman to put her vulva at risk when a man doesn't do the same? Why do we let men be special and not sell access to their bodies?

All the conditions you mentioned can result from sex generally, regardless of whether you are paid.

The great thing about unpaid sex is that I can stop doing it without it affecting my income, allowing me to avoid these illnesses

No other job involves the punter paying to rape. And that's what it is: "my poverty consents but not my will". The woman wouldn't have sex with these guys if they weren't paying her and she can't say no to too many of them because she needs the money. Sure, she might say no to one because her spidey senses tell her he's dangerous, but that comes at a cost.

When you greenlight prostitution, you greenlight paying to rape. You greenlight treating women as hirable commodities. You can't complain that men keep objectifying you when you're happy for them to buy and sell some other woman. "Do it to Julia" springs to mind.

Legalisation in Germany has meant mega-brothels and increased trafficking from Romania. It has not resulted in coops. It has resulted in men making lots of money running the mega-brothels and women being exploited.

Yes, actually. Check the side-effects list on your Pill packet.

Oestrogen-based contraceptives quadruple a woman's risk of a stroke and women who get migraine with aura are not allowed to take them because their pre-existing stroke risk is already so high.

Yes. I have. I used hormonal contraception to prevent menstruation for 20 years and am very well aware of the side effects. I was on the pill from the age of 12. And no, no male contraceptive would ever be allowed with the side effect profile of female hormonal contraceptives.

BUT, early menopause isn't one of these. And that is what was being discussed.

It’s what the fertility business does.