To tell you the Scottish Govt are targeting 18 year old girls for egg harvesting

[VestaTilley]

Yes, really.

Surrogacy Concern broke the news on Friday night. I can’t actually believe it.

Over a month to come, the Scottish Govt are asking for egg and sperm donors as young as 18 to come forward in a series of targeted ads on social media and the radio. They’ve expanded IVF provision and - in their own words - have a supply and demand issue.

I’d heard of fertility clinics advertising (bad enough in my view) but for a national Govt to do this to women is staggering. Women can die from complications arising from OHSS, which can be caused by egg donation. A British woman died in 2006 as a result.

The ads don’t mention these risks; it’s all “be kind” “do something amazing”. I cannot actually believe a Govt could be this stupid. They’ve only just apologised for forced adoption!

AIBU?

I just don't think there should be single sex environments, for lots of reasons. If you want to advocate for them, do so.

I'm incredibly bored now. Your lot are very dedicated, and in the times we live in, where right wing populism is having a moment, you've had a few wins. I still think in a few decades you'll be seen as having been on the wrong side of history, but if you believe in your cause, keep fighting. We'll see how the future unfolds.

Most of us lean left, not right. Right wing isn't synonymous with "things you don't approve of". Women's rights has traditionally been a left wing issue, but as I said you're not very well informed about any of this.

Indeed! I need to get my Dd out of this damned place!

I don't think saying that a small group of women, who claim to speak for all, get to exclude others from certain environments on the basis of nothing but their 'comfort ' is misogynistic.

It is not a small group and as Eresh pointed out there is an even smaller group of TRAS/Gender Ideologists claiming to not only speak on behalf of trans people but everyone.

Not excluding 'others' just male people and, bizarrely I know, but male people actually have spaces, services and sports for them too. Funny old world ain't it.

I've just seen your response to someone else, @PP82. Sadly, the experience from my part of Scotland would suggest otherwise.

Paris Green, Tiffany Scott and Katie Dolatowski all originally come from neighbouring places of residence - Glenrothes, Kinglassie, Kirkcaldy.

All three have been shown to be extremely dangerous.

Green participated in the sexual torture and murder of a man. Scott stalked a 13 yr old girl from prison.

Dolatowski is guilty of paedophilic voyeurism and attempted sexual assault of a 10 yr old. (Both offences happened in women's toilets.) D was transferred to the male prison estate after breaking parole conditions and beat up a male prisoner.

PP is bored and doesn't care about women. That's been made very clear.

I'm disappointed to hear that you're bored. I'd be interested to hear why you don't think that there should be single sex environments.

Ovarian Hyperstimulation Syndrome is also a risk (& can, on rare occasions, be fatal)

PP is bored and doesn't care about women. That's been made very clear.

Surprisingly they do very much care about getting something from them such as donor eggs.

I care as much about the feelings of the 'gender critical ' as you do about the feelings of trans and non binary people. I didn't know the word was banned though, so I won't use it again, and if you want to have those posts deleted, that is your right. I'll continue to use it in everyday life though, like you insist on continuing to call trans women men.

Now, now. That's extremely cynical of you.

It may just be that one poster genuinely happens to think that there should not be single sex spaces for reasons unknown, and that trans women will be safe from men, just so long as said men are in mixed spaces.

I still think in a few decades you'll be seen as having been on the wrong side of history

That's nearly the whole bingo card.

There is no "wrong side of history". It's not teleologically moral. The passage of time is simply the passage of time. Things can get worse and they can get better, or they can stay the same. Sometimes things get worse after they get better, and I would argue that's what's happened to women's rights.

History is written by the victors, which I suppose is what you mean. I don't consider that you're either well informed, in touch with what most people think, or particularly able to think critically and grasp other people's points of view, so I'm not particularly fussed about what you pontificate about it.

Or as much as you care about the feelings of vulnerable women.

I am actually, authentically, hurt that after all the posts I've made, the detail and the effort I've put into articulating my points, you characterise my position as "right wing populist". I haven't called you any names, haven't accused you of any evil intentions, have engaged with the actual words you've said, gone deep into my reasoning. And that's what you wind up with. You say you're wasting your time for a distraction, and fair enough I don't expect you to engage too deeply on your own account because you clearly don't care about the issues beyond a slightly woolly commitment to equality without being too keen to define what that ought to look like or how f ought to work. But I'd at least expect you not to completely mischaracterise the people who are engaged with this issue and hav taken the time to articulate why. Seriously that really sucks of you.

I think I've already given quite a lot of reasons over the last few hours. I don't believe they make women safer. When men want to rape women they just do it, usually in their own homes. Should all households be single sex spaces? Are women safer in Afghanistan, where almost all environments are strictly gender segregated?

Ovarian Hyperstimulation Syndrome is also a risk (& can, on rare occasions, be fatal)

Yes. There are definitely risks for women in egg extraction whether for their own use or the benefit of others.

That wasn't targeted at you specifically, and I've thought your posts to be intelligent and nuanced, even if I don't agree with everything you've said. But I do believe that gender critical perspectives have arisen as part of the current right wing populist climate.

And you've been given evidence that shows that mixed sex changing rooms, are far more dangerous for women.

You are repeatedly making assertions that are not supported by evidence.

Your 'beliefs are faith based if they are not based on evidence.

I don't believe they make women safer.

They do make women safer, your non sequiturs notwithstanding. Women are more at risk of sexual assault in mixed sex spaces. Because there are men there.

And DNA tests and sites like ancestry that allow you to register your DNA with them. They will allow people to find relatives and hence find out who their parents are.

Women are not completely safe in single sex environments, but they're often safer.

In my area, Katie Dolatowski was able to enter women's toilets by self-identifying as a woman. Yes, D would have been able to get in there under male ID, but it's more likely that someone would have stopped "Lennon" Dolatowski before they could attack the children using the facilities.

wonder if the same will apply for people born as a result of egg donation? And if not, why not?

Yes I believe exactly the same applies. A child can find out their biological parents at 18.

I was just sent a link salad, mostly to accounts of individual cases from publications I wouldn't deign to read.

The underlying belief that PP seems to be basing assertions on is that men are more important than women.

It's not often that people are so open about holding it.