AIBU to not sit down with this colleague?

[Bella60]

Okay, so had to name change for this one! Last year I was in a temporary management position at my school (I’m an English teacher) and part of my role was to promote whole-school literacy. I implemented a vocabulary online programme to KS3; I held parent assemblies about reading; I created monthly newsletters based around reading and book recommendations; I held a book club each week; visited other schools and did other stuff in the quest to improve literacy in the school and I had data to prove these things were starting to make an impact. Anyway, the Head then decided they wanted a ‘whole-school literacy lead’ so I applied for the position along with a science teacher. The science teacher got the job. Honestly, I’m fine about it because in hindsight it’s a mammoth task. The stuff I was doing was fun but the job description was huge! Last week, the science teacher who got the job asked for a sit down so she can go through all the things I did last year regarding literacy because she and SLT are keen to continue what I was doing. She said in the email she was also keen to hear what ideas I have for the future. So, I emailed back and gave her my contacts for the vocab builder platform and recommended a zoom call with them. I listed the things I had done last year and talked about what worked well but didn’t agree to meet her. Now SLT are turning up the heat and insisting I meet with her telling me that because I’m an English teacher I’m more knowledgeable about literacy and it’s ’my duty’ to support her and the school. (They actually said those words) WTAF?? I’m normally really laid back and will help anyone but I feel there’s a line here- I’m thinking if I wasn’t good enough for the position then why now are my ideas good enough?? What do you think? Am I being out of order by not sitting down with this teacher or should I stand my ground and say no?

I think this is cheeky. They obviously need you and you're clearly the best person for the role, but they employed someone less competent. You didn't get the job, so you shouldn't be helping them with this role.

Think I'd be inclined to say, "sorry this project is no longer my baby. Since the role went to another, I've stopped researching and brainstorming ideas. It's not something I wish to do in my spare time, unpaid. As you can appreciate it is a mammoth task. I have given you all of my ideas from the last academic year, but unfortunately I don't have any more. Please look at x for resources. All the best."

lim not in education but I do suspect that the whole system only runs as it does because teachers are guilted into stuff like this “for the benefit of the children” or “for the school”. It’s really bloody cheeky op.

on the other hand I feel a bit sorry for the science teacher. It’s not her fault you didn’t get it.

I also suspect she oversold herself in the interview probably thinking non science subjects are “easy” and now she’s seen the scale of the task (which the SLT probably minimised) she’s panicking.

What awful management. It puts you in a shit position and is awkward as hell for science teacher.
I’d agree to meet with her during school hours and just go over your email. Say you were intending carry on the programs you had instigated but it’s her role now and you look forward to seeing his/her ideas in practice.
If SLT continue to pressure you to work for free I’d be clear it’s inappropriate as it’s stepping on toes of person who got the job.
You are an English teacher and will of course support and follow the schemes the new lead instigates.

Absolutely.

I teach English, not in schools but in university, and it's the same drill. There is a culture of rewarding mediocrity. Informed, competent and passionate teachers and researchers are bottom of the pile: in fact, world-class researchers often find themselves on the receiving end of a lot of issues, presumably because they are considered a threat in some way.

Incompetent management fail upwards.

The future of the Humanities in particular doesn't look at all bright at present.

I’d definitely turn their guilt trip around - you are supporting the science teacher and school by letting the hired candidate develop and run the role.
Last thing science teacher needs is you criticising everything and undermining her. An ‘acting’ not getting permanent role needs careful handling by management.
I suspect they naively thought you’d carry on running your existing stuff for free.

Absolutely. I'd be looking askance and certainly not trusting the SLT from this point on. 🌹

Hmm, is the Science teacher not coping is my thought. You've worked really hard on what sounds a really good programme and youve done a detailed handover. Just remind them that you handed over all relevant info, plus suggestions for what you'd planned re the future & that you have nothing more to add ideas wise & no spare capacity time wise. It's not your job to support them if they're not coping, which I suspect is the case.

I would happily (well, not happily, really, more grudgingly) sit down with her and have a chat. But I wouldn't be coming with new ideas for the future - that's literally what they've employed her to do. You've set up a really strong foundation for her and it's up to her to build on it.

I would say that it would certainly be important and beneficial for her to run her ideas past someone who teaches English, and perhaps have sight of what's happening curriculum-wise in the English department, so she can make sure her literacy programme sits well alongside it. But she should probably be doing that with the Head of English (I assume that isn't you?). They are paid to oversee English and she is paid to implement literacy programmes - you are paid for neither of those things and you shouldn't have to be taking responsibility for them.

You've done a full handover, which is great. You shouldn't need to be doing any more than that. I'm actually stunned that the SLT have turned around and said that you need to do this because you know more about literacy than the person they gave the literacy job to. They've basically outed themselves as having appointed the wrong person.

I have been in the position of failing to get an internal promotion, which went to someone else in the team who has less experience than I do. (It's fair enough - she's actually a good work mate and on the day, she just gave a better interview than me - the interview came at the worst possible time for me for all sorts of reasons and I under-performed.) Our boss made it very clear to me that at no point would I be expected to advise/coach/support/train the successful candidate because everyone involved was aware it would have been very unfair on me!

Honestly, i think you're making yourself look very unprofessional in refusing to have the sit down meeting requested. You are looking jealous, a very poor loser etc etc. Have you given any thought at all as to why the other person got the job? Maybe he or she was judged to have better ideas etc than you. Having a sit down meeting with the person who did the job before you is absolutely a normal, standard thing to do. Nothing more, nothing less.

Maybe you should have got the job, maybe you shouldn't have, no one here knows. Have you requested feedback? That would be far more useful for you than making yourself look like someone who cannot accept that she did not get a promotion, is hugely cross about it, and worst of all cannot help showing that.

Stamping your foot and refusing to have a standard meeting is likely to be more damaging to you than anyone else. You could have had the meeting already, said no more than your handover documentation did and have moved on.

You could also have already got some useful feedback for your future interviews etc.

Have you given any thought at all as to why the other person got the job? Maybe he or she was judged to have better ideas etc than you.

Then why would they be asking for information on the OP's ideas?

Because they are professional and interested in getting the opinions of the person who did the job before them. Standard thing to do.

But the science teacher isn't asking for opinion. They are asking for the OPs ideas!

Brief meeting, super positive and breezy, lots of encouragement and supportive statements. But zero ideas. YADNBU!

I totally understand where you are coming from, OP but my view that this is actually ...fine. She is taking over the job you did last year and I think it is reasonable for there to be an actual conversation in the course of the handover, rather than just emails. Sorry, but I would agree to a chat. Assuming it is a single conversation it is realistically just going to be covering any questions she has about what has happened so far and making sure she is up to date, not her somehow getting you to do her job for her. It's going to be half an hour of your time. If she asks for further work from you obviously decline but imho ywbu to decline a conversation. Apart from anything else, you do want to keep the SLT on your side in case you want to apply to any other roles internally or need a reference to change jobs.

Play the game @Bella60. Meet her and talk about what you had implemented . Ask her what new initiatives she has implemented. Tell her that you think consistency is the answer here and that time is needed to evaluate how effective those policies were. In that way avoid giving any more ideas of your own. Emphasise how short a time period you were in the job 😉

I feel for you, OP. It's really painful to be passed over for an internal promotion. Non-English specialists can and do make superb literacy leads but in this case it sounds like the wrong person was given the job.

Nevertheless, the people who are advising you to refuse to attend the meeting are unlikely to be familiar with teachers' contracts. As a pp has mentioned you can be directed to work at the reasonable request of the headteacher. Although this situation has clearly been badly mishandled and the way in which the request was made was unreasonable, it is not unreasonable to ask you to attend a handover meeting and your union would not back you if you refused. PP have given you good advice to attend the meeting, provide a factual account of your work, but not to engage with planning for the future.

Meanwhile, update your CV and start actively looking for a new role. PM me if you are in the West Midlands!

@Bella60

I've just read your post again.

Rereading the bits I've highlighted in bold, it sounds to me like they expect you to continue what you are doing but she's the boss. I no longer think this is just a handover, it's a meeting to see how yous BOTH go forward. Asking to hear your ideas for the future definitely suggests she thinks you are continuing to work alongside her.

What everyone is saying still stands, have the handover meeting and wish her well for the future. If she starts talking about future meetings etc just say you are of the understanding you have been relieved of the role and you've now handed over what information you have.

"Okay, so had to name change for this one! Last year I was in a temporary management position at my school (I’m an English teacher) and part of my role was to promote whole-school literacy. I implemented a vocabulary online programme to KS3; I held parent assemblies about reading; I created monthly newsletters based around reading and book recommendations; I held a book club each week; visited other schools and did other stuff in the quest to improve literacy in the school and I had data to prove these things were starting to make an impact. Anyway, the Head then decided they wanted a ‘whole-school literacy lead’ so I applied for the position along with a science teacher. The science teacher got the job. Honestly, I’m fine about it because in hindsight it’s a mammoth task. The stuff I was doing was fun but the job description was huge! Last week, the science teacher who got the job asked for a sit down so she can go through all the things I did last year regarding literacy because she and SLT are keen to continue what I was doing. She said in the email she was also keen to hear what ideas I have for the future"

Maybe the person who got the job is "liked" by SLT because they're more supportive. Helping this person out helps them, but it also helps SLT and people remember these things, even if only subconsciously.

IME doing a favour (and this one would cost you very little, you've nothing to lose and are being asked to do it in work time) is one of the most powerful career progression tools.

I would meet her to confirm what you had done - that way you can say you cooperated - but fob her off or stonewall when she asks for what you think going forward. Tell her that you stopped thinking about it when you did not get the job, and have nothing to offer her other than an update on what you did last year.

Exactly! If Her forward thinking ideas are so good, why are they pressuring you to meet with her and exchange ideas?? Why is a Science teacher heading up a literacy program? And not an English teacher?
Meet, ask her what her Forward thinking ideas are.
Just go armed with exactly the same resources you forwarded her earlier. Don’t add anything. And say you’re looking forward to seeing how things unfold for her.
Dont get roped into doing all the work while they get all the credit.

I'd meet with her to shut everyone up and avoid accusations of not being a team player etc etc

Take control of the meeting

• I've given you this info, is there anything you don't understand
• this is what I did, have you any questions?
• this is all the information I have to share with you

If they ask about ideas just say I don't have any. I applied for the role but didn't get it so stopped thinking about this issue. I was prepared to do research, network, undertake CPD, contact & asses possible content providers etc.

Obviously this is your role now so what are you planning?

I am absolutely astonished that a literacy role, that should Obviously sit in the English dept was given to a science teacher & SLT will have to deal with it if they're not up to the role.

Nope. The job has been given to another member of staff. They stepped up and applied, so it’s down to them. Why should OP do it for free ?

Meet with her, as instructed by SLT, but don't offer anything. You don't want to be on the wrong side of SLT, they have much more clout and governor influence. Do as they request, but no more. SLT appointed the other person, let that teacher get on with it alone - as she's paid to do. But don't refuse their request to meet,refusing them anything can lead to a world of bullying. I was bullied for years at one school, took me about 5 years to recover and I'm still wary

People who say ‘meet with her in school time’ don’t understand how schools work. If you’re not teaching, you’re marking, calling parents, planning, sorting out your books etc. The hours bleed into every weekend and evening especially in English where the marking load is horrendous ~ generally accepted to be the worst of any subject.

So you are asking the OP to give up her free time ~ her free unpaid time. Time that could be spent doing all those other tasks. She’s done the handover and that’s enough.

This ‘it’s not professional’ and ‘for the good of the school’ line is the one that gets trotted out time and time again to guilt teachers and make them go above and beyond.

If it’s that important to the school, they can organise cover, pay her extra on a supply rate or give time off in lieu. But they won’t. Because it’s only important if it’s free.

Hold the line OP. You’re simply too busy and too focused on your actual job to spend any more time on this. You’ve done the handover. Surely there’s someone on SLT who can give up their free time to support the Science teacher in their new role? Throw it back to them ~ pleasantly but firmly.

BTW for those saying find another job, in my experience all schools do this and because no one makes a fuss, on and in it goes.

I don’t work in schools so this might not be good advice, but if this happened to me in the charity sector where I work - I would speak to my manager and say that I was extremely disappointed that I wasn’t accepted for the job but am being asked to share my ideas with the person who did get it (& who I was told had got the job because of their ideas). Show them you realise you’re being taken advantage of and you’re not happy, and then the ball is in their court to suggest a way forward. It sounds to me like it should be a joint initiative with the both of you!