AIBU to not sit down with this colleague?

[Bella60]

Okay, so had to name change for this one! Last year I was in a temporary management position at my school (I’m an English teacher) and part of my role was to promote whole-school literacy. I implemented a vocabulary online programme to KS3; I held parent assemblies about reading; I created monthly newsletters based around reading and book recommendations; I held a book club each week; visited other schools and did other stuff in the quest to improve literacy in the school and I had data to prove these things were starting to make an impact. Anyway, the Head then decided they wanted a ‘whole-school literacy lead’ so I applied for the position along with a science teacher. The science teacher got the job. Honestly, I’m fine about it because in hindsight it’s a mammoth task. The stuff I was doing was fun but the job description was huge! Last week, the science teacher who got the job asked for a sit down so she can go through all the things I did last year regarding literacy because she and SLT are keen to continue what I was doing. She said in the email she was also keen to hear what ideas I have for the future. So, I emailed back and gave her my contacts for the vocab builder platform and recommended a zoom call with them. I listed the things I had done last year and talked about what worked well but didn’t agree to meet her. Now SLT are turning up the heat and insisting I meet with her telling me that because I’m an English teacher I’m more knowledgeable about literacy and it’s ’my duty’ to support her and the school. (They actually said those words) WTAF?? I’m normally really laid back and will help anyone but I feel there’s a line here- I’m thinking if I wasn’t good enough for the position then why now are my ideas good enough?? What do you think? Am I being out of order by not sitting down with this teacher or should I stand my ground and say no?

I agree with @EmmaDilemma5 and would also make if clear it's a one off handover and not an ongoing support. Her role =her ideas

Argh this is so typical of SLT; they exploit the goodwill of enthusiastic teachers until it burns out. I feel frustrated for you just reading this.

An alternative to previous suggestions: consider meeting with your colleague and offering some INSANE ideas.

• A banned letter of the week. For example, for week 1 of term the letter A will be banned. Any staff or pupils who use the letter A will be disciplined. This will force them to expand their vocabulary. Bad luck to the 100 or so Avas.
• A novelty klaxon to be placed in each classroom. Any grammar errors such as prepositions dangling at the end of sentences, or using reflexive pronouns incorrectly will be met with the klaxon.
• Reply to all staff emails with suggestions of how to improve them.
• SLT to perform a spelling bee/rap battle in assembly.

Can you tell I'm also an English teacher?

@ExcitingRicotta my feedback was ‘look at the long term data’. I heard through the trusty grapevine that the science teacher was ‘liked’ SLT. I mean, I though I was liked by SLT 😂

@startledbypostmodernity hahaha! Thank you for this! You made me laugh and gave me great ideas! Yes, those English teacher vibes shone through!x

if I wasn’t good enough for the position then why now are my ideas good enough

I don't work in a school so appreciate that my thoughts may not be relevant.

However, I am absolutely clear that there is a world of difference between having good, even excellent ideas and being part of management / leadership process. In my current role, I get to do projects unencumbered by the responsibilities of management. In your shoes, I would be delighted to contribute ideas and have someone else do the more boring things like implementation, reporting and monitoring.

Again, however, I'm very happy in my role and in my reward package, terms and conditions etc. if you feel they are trying to harvest your intellectual property without commensurate reward, the situation is a different kettle of fish.

In any case where anyone is not happy, really the best thing is just to get a different role, which is even better than your current role.

not your job so dont do it!!!

Absolute CFs

I'd need to tell the SLT that, although I am happy to sit down with the science teacher because I'm a team player, I'm confused as to why they want to continue with my ideas/input as science teacher had some great forward thinking ideas discussed at interview. I'd ask them to help me understand their thought process around my input and why my ideas weren't good enough to actually get the role but good enough to continue going forward.

This is probably why I've gone as far as I can in my career cos I can't keep my mouth shut 😂

I would go with what @Sparklesocks and @EmmaDilemma5 have said.

@Fannyfiggs love this reply!!!😂

@FinallyHere thank you for your reply. Schools are strange places! I worked in private sector for ten years before going into public sector. It’s definitely an odd area of life. Been here 17 years and it’s getting stranger!

Oh, you can play this game, OP. You’ve run out of ideas because you’ve already given her all of yours. But she has lots because she was given the job! So… I’d ask her to email you a list of her ideas for the future of whole school literacy and then you will read them and provide feedback (cc’ing in SLT) from your English specialist’s POV on whether you think they’ll work. What wonderful support from you. What a chance for her to show off all her ideas that apparently landed her the job.

I understand that it’s crap management, but no-one seems to be thinking about the kids whose literacy was demonstrably being improved by Bella. It’s great that her project made a difference. With a full time person in role, there’s an opportunity to make a more significant difference to the literacy of that cohort of kids and therefore their lives as adults.
Surely that’s more important than a nose put out of joint?

I'd meet with her but take a print out of the email/info you have already provided and what's publically available and go through that. Your own visual aide memoire so you don't start sharing too many new ideas. Try to be very deferent "I'm sure your ideas are much better" and tinkly laugh etc.

Play the game but don't give anything away to make you feel even shitter about the situation.

Absolutely.
Don't be a mug

Shocked to hear an English teacher repeating the myth that prepositions don’t belong at the end of sentences.

It’s perfectly acceptable to do this in the English language. It’s Latin where you can’t do this.

If you go I'd handle it as a hand over meeting. Go over what you did and tell her you look forward to seeing where she takes things.

Usually it's because they know they'll quit without some career progression so they've given her the job because they are scared of loosing a science teacher. Same in too many professions I've found.

I, as non teacher, am squirming at idea of “whole school literacy”

wtf does that actually mean?

surely kids have to read and write in every subject and activity anyway ?

and those stuck on aspects of literacy, like the old spelling gem, aren’t going to improve by having it called out in every single fecking lesson form science to history, that they’re actually good at but still shite at spelling. That’s just demoralising- you’re constantly being penalised and called out for one issue that you already know you’ve got issues with, through reading lessons and English,

Been there. Got in way of me actually enjoying the lesson.

I had a form of dyslexia, but wasn’t diagnosed in those days - 1970s, and my mum was an English teacher too. Nothing has ever helped my spelling. nothing does now. ( not helped my square fingered crap typing) .

but my reading is insatiable but only eventually at age 8. Late start, made up for it ever since and speed read. No amount of teachers constantly thrusting literacy down my throat in every single lesson helped that late start. Just diligence of my mum and my primary teachers being patient for my brain to click in.

Im 60, did a high level consultant job in top FTSE companies. Spelling was still crap. At advent of computers I got spellchecking to help. But it doesn’t pick up everything and I’m also, because of my issue, very bad at proof reading. I owned it, told managers, people I worked with that this was a problem for me. Anything external went to another colleague to proof read. I was employed for my technical expertise and experience , not my “literacy” .

The preoccupation by the spelling and grammar police is frustrating to people like me, and gets in way of other intelligence development and attributes. Let kids work on the subject they’re being taught in, not handicapping them constantly with need for reading more, on a subject they might be bored at reading (we don’t all learn by reading - some of us learn better by doing, by listening, by watching etc) and certainly not with insistence on correct spelling and punctuation outside of actual English lessons.

focus all the schools resources on identifying and targeting support for those kids who struggle with reading writing etc and it’s holding them back

They were terrible suggestions on purpose, no?

That seems a reasonable request to me. Why wouldn't you want to make sure the project is handed over properly?

I'd agree to the meeting- just to get Head off my back. But I wouldn't come up with any new ideas and I'd be a bit like a parrot, by scattering in phrases like "I'm sure you have lots of ideas to move this forward" at every opportunity.

Are the science teacher and whoever hired her pals. I know of a few teachers who got the job as they were best friends with the head. A mates mate went for a job she’d been doing over a year and well apparently but someone else was given the job. Lots of digging and the head and the new teacher were in numerous photos on each others Facebook going back years. It’s shitty.

You didn’t get the job because you were doing it all already for free.

They we’re hoping by hiring her, you would both do the job and have 2 people for the price of 1.

It’s the same with volunteers.
They rarely get jobs they apply for in that company because that means they stop doing the job for free.

I would definitely have a meeting with her and tell her everything you’ve been doing.
You did this for the students and it will benefit them for you to pass your knowledge on.

But I wouldn’t do any additional meetings or work in the future.

If she’s got ideas then she needs to implement them herself.
Its not your job.

This is great advice.

The handover of any role would likely involve this and nothing more. If you meet as requested you can't be accused of being obstructive, or professionally envious, or of chomping on 'sour grapes'.

Yet you give away nothing more than you've given already. 'Ideas for the future' are her job now, and given you're now doing a different job, you are no longer being paid to devote the time and headspace required to do this one. She was appointed: it's now down to her.

If you face more persistence, try approaching your line manager and taking the standard union line: 'Which jobs would you prefer me not to do to give me time to accommodate this?'

For that matter, if you do really come under more pressure having already stated your reservations about this, consulting the union might not be a bad idea.

YANBU. It doesn't do to be too much of a pushover, and this is really quite the nerve.

Not restricted to schools this is pretty common and I suspect boils down to how you interview. Some people can talk up a great interview even if they don't really know what they're doing while good candidates stumble.

I'd meet with her and wish her well, let her know how much your looking forward to being a teacher again. If you don't want to be too helpful spend the time talking about your new class and how time consuming it is you'd never have time to spend on developing these initiatives. You could probably spend the whole time avoiding helping.