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AIBU?

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Original poster

AIBU to not sit down with this colleague?

225 replies

Bella60 · 05/11/2023 20:21

Okay, so had to name change for this one! Last year I was in a temporary management position at my school (I’m an English teacher) and part of my role was to promote whole-school literacy. I implemented a vocabulary online programme to KS3; I held parent assemblies about reading; I created monthly newsletters based around reading and book recommendations; I held a book club each week; visited other schools and did other stuff in the quest to improve literacy in the school and I had data to prove these things were starting to make an impact. Anyway, the Head then decided they wanted a ‘whole-school literacy lead’ so I applied for the position along with a science teacher. The science teacher got the job. Honestly, I’m fine about it because in hindsight it’s a mammoth task. The stuff I was doing was fun but the job description was huge! Last week, the science teacher who got the job asked for a sit down so she can go through all the things I did last year regarding literacy because she and SLT are keen to continue what I was doing. She said in the email she was also keen to hear what ideas I have for the future. So, I emailed back and gave her my contacts for the vocab builder platform and recommended a zoom call with them. I listed the things I had done last year and talked about what worked well but didn’t agree to meet her. Now SLT are turning up the heat and insisting I meet with her telling me that because I’m an English teacher I’m more knowledgeable about literacy and it’s ’my duty’ to support her and the school. (They actually said those words) WTAF?? I’m normally really laid back and will help anyone but I feel there’s a line here- I’m thinking if I wasn’t good enough for the position then why now are my ideas good enough?? What do you think? Am I being out of order by not sitting down with this teacher or should I stand my ground and say no?

OP posts:
lottiegarbanzo · 05/11/2023 22:45

Just have the meeting.

Cover stuff you did last year. Say you haven't developed further ideas as you didn't get the role. Over to her.

AndromacheAstyanax · 05/11/2023 22:53

That puts you in a very awkward position, OP, and in your shoes I’d feel slighted.

I’ve had SLT roles in a couple of schools and it’s quite common for a promotion to be stitched up for reasons quite outside your control. I would guess that there are reasons why the science teacher was appointed over you, which have nothing to do with you or her forward thinking ideas.

I’d do the meeting, but keep it brief. Hand over what you need to, but it’s now over to her (sorry if it’s a him). If she reaps the reward for your ideas, you console yourself that you will have many more of them.

melj1213 · 05/11/2023 23:08

Surely if the science teacher got the role then they had to present their own ideas in their interview, the same way you did?

In which case I would agree to the meeting (on their time not yours - so they need to get cover for lesson time and/or planning time to account for the time you spend doing this meeting, I wouldn't be doing it on my own time) but I would go with the intention of generally outlining the things you did in the role last year - I'd be happy to explain the basic outline and/or answer any questions they have about implementation etc - but wouldn't be sharing any of my new ideas.

Maybe instead of sharing your ideas, ask the science teacher to bring the ideas they pitched in their interview to the meeting so you can go over them and provide initial feedback regarding the feasibility and/or best ways of implementing them within the framework you've already created. That way the ideas are all their own and you're just going in to rate/review them rather than give them your own ideas with no intention of doing the work for them.

After that initial meeting I would just be "far too busy with XYZ/ABC/LMNOP" to do any more work on the literacy program because you don't have time in your schedule to accommodate it, unlike the science teacher who has the role and the associated time allocated for the work that goes with it.

Steppingawayfromthelaptop · 05/11/2023 23:10

When I worked in a school I saw SLT give teachers where there is a subject shortage all kinds of extras in order to keep them. Often there were far more suitable teachers for roles such as Head of Year, Safeguarding etc but if a science or maths teacher applied they always got it (no matter how suitable they were). It was incredibly unfair and frustrating and many of those who lost out eventually left teaching and were a big loss. Just do the polite handover and look after yourself.

Goodfrock · 05/11/2023 23:12

Steppingawayfromthelaptop · 05/11/2023 23:10

When I worked in a school I saw SLT give teachers where there is a subject shortage all kinds of extras in order to keep them. Often there were far more suitable teachers for roles such as Head of Year, Safeguarding etc but if a science or maths teacher applied they always got it (no matter how suitable they were). It was incredibly unfair and frustrating and many of those who lost out eventually left teaching and were a big loss. Just do the polite handover and look after yourself.

But also makes perfect sense from a management pov and for the sake if the children. Of course you're going to make most effort to retain the staff you most need to keep.

ThanksItHasPockets · 05/11/2023 23:15

OP, I'm a literacy specialist so I have some insight into your field. You have had some great advice and I can only add that you should very seriously consider moving on to a school that will value you as I suspect you would quickly find yourself snapped up. You were woefully underpaid for your work last year (I assume on a TLR3?). I know of several schools which have recently advertised for heads of literacy on TLR 2c, around £7k.

Wrongsideofpennines · 05/11/2023 23:17

I had similar in a job where they appointed someone external to a more senior role be my 'supervisor'. They said she had more experience. She had been qualified longer but had no experience in that setting. They instructed me to complete her induction and let her shadow me etc to understand the role. I felt that they only didn't appoint me as to it as it stopped there being a vacancy at my level. So I did her induction and then handed my notice in. She was a lovely woman and gave credit to me in a meeting shortly after she got there for clearing the waiting list - she knew it was my hard work rather than her arrival that had done it.

I would agree to meet with her if you're being pressure but explain you have nothing further to add other than what you've already shared. Tell them that as you are no longer in the role you don't have any further contributions to make as you want to get back to focusing on your 'just teaching' role.

ThanksItHasPockets · 05/11/2023 23:19

Steppingawayfromthelaptop · 05/11/2023 23:10

When I worked in a school I saw SLT give teachers where there is a subject shortage all kinds of extras in order to keep them. Often there were far more suitable teachers for roles such as Head of Year, Safeguarding etc but if a science or maths teacher applied they always got it (no matter how suitable they were). It was incredibly unfair and frustrating and many of those who lost out eventually left teaching and were a big loss. Just do the polite handover and look after yourself.

The way things are going, English will be a shortage subject in a few years' time so specialists may soon find themselves in receipt of these perks.

I am only half-joking.

Nanny0gg · 05/11/2023 23:20

@startledbypostmodernity

  • A novelty klaxon to be placed in each classroom. Any grammar errors such as prepositions dangling at the end of sentences, or using reflexive pronouns incorrectly will be met with the klaxon.

Is there a way of implementing this in Real Life? Perhaps with an added electric shock (non fatal)?

Jk8 · 05/11/2023 23:28

In regardess to making plans/organsing ideas "This is no longer in the forefront of my mind now im back to focusing on my classes" ?

user1492757084 · 05/11/2023 23:37

Professionally have the meeting.

Organise a time that suits.
Organise it while you are being paid.
Share the information she requests and hope that she is able to build good transitions from your programs to also including her ideas. It is not her fault that she got the job.

She is showing you respect and valuing your contribution.
Meet for a set time and make it clear that now she has everything and you are no longer running the specialised course. Wish her the best of luck.

LuluBlakey1 · 05/11/2023 23:48

Sparklesocks · 05/11/2023 20:27

I’d be tempted to go down the weaponised incompetence route, meet with her but say I don’t have any new ideas beyond the ones Ive already implemented/shared - but best of luck, I’m sure as the literacy lead you will come up with some…😉

Edited

^ This- schools are really cheeky. Don't give the person any ideas. Just say 'I hadn't planned any further ahead. I was focussed on getting what I was doing off the ground'.
If they don't have ideas of their own they shouldn't have bern given the job. I wonder if it was a way of giving them an allowance to keep them as Science teachers are in short supply. The assumption would be you'd be doing Literacy stuff anyway.

JudgeJ · 06/11/2023 00:01

BorisIsACuntWaffle · 05/11/2023 20:29

Yanbu. But not unusual in schools. Arse holes

Always been the case! If I made work sheets back in the olden days I would put my name and the date I created it in the footer, in white font so it couldn't be seen, I then caught out someone passing my sheets round with their name on it!

GreigeO · 06/11/2023 00:01

It it so odd that there needs to be a discussion with me

I don’t get it, in whose world would it be odd that she wants to have a chat with you? Just meet her and be friendly, she’s not asking for the Sistine fricking chapel!

smooththecat · 06/11/2023 00:02

It’s called gaslighting.

OuiOuiMonAmiJeMappelleLafayette · 06/11/2023 00:03

Sounds like a fine line you need to tread.

I would agree to the meeting, re-iterate all the things you said in the email, but when asked for new ideas, say you don't have any and say how nice it is just to focus on your main role. Obviously add in how you are happy to give feedback on his/her ideas though.

Then look for another job where people appreciate you more.

Don't show SLT or colleagues that you're pissed off, just quietly leave!

JudgeJ · 06/11/2023 00:06

Nanny0gg · 05/11/2023 23:20

@startledbypostmodernity

  • A novelty klaxon to be placed in each classroom. Any grammar errors such as prepositions dangling at the end of sentences, or using reflexive pronouns incorrectly will be met with the klaxon.

Is there a way of implementing this in Real Life? Perhaps with an added electric shock (non fatal)?

Edited

The misuse of apostrophes should be met with a cattle prod in the rear.

ChekhovsMum · 06/11/2023 00:07

I think I know what’s happened here.
Either Ofsted have come, or they’ve come to another school that the head knows about, and made a comment about how literacy should be across the curriculum and it’s not appropriate for the literacy coordinator to be an English teacher. Or they’ve praised another school because their literacy coordinator teaches rural skills BTEC or something.
So they’ve engineered this science teacher’s appointment in order to change that, and then realised that it was a really good idea to have an English teacher as Literacy lead all along.
I hate nothing in education more than when SLT blindly kowtow to some random unjustified thing Ofsted have said, without thinking for themselves, believing that it will be the one thing that magically secures them an outstanding. It’s pathetic.
I would do as little as possible and let this situation crash and burn.

NumberTheory · 06/11/2023 00:13

YABU not to meet to go over what you did last year. You are still employed by the school and recapping work you've done in the past to help others do their jobs better is a reasonable expectation even if you feel you were a better fit for the role. It's unprofessional not to cooperate with this.

YANBU to refrain from adding new ideas for her to implement since this is no longer part of your job. Depending on your contract, you could consider offering your services as an outside consultant if they want to harness this aspect of your expertise.

ThanksItHasPockets · 06/11/2023 00:13

ChekhovsMum · 06/11/2023 00:07

I think I know what’s happened here.
Either Ofsted have come, or they’ve come to another school that the head knows about, and made a comment about how literacy should be across the curriculum and it’s not appropriate for the literacy coordinator to be an English teacher. Or they’ve praised another school because their literacy coordinator teaches rural skills BTEC or something.
So they’ve engineered this science teacher’s appointment in order to change that, and then realised that it was a really good idea to have an English teacher as Literacy lead all along.
I hate nothing in education more than when SLT blindly kowtow to some random unjustified thing Ofsted have said, without thinking for themselves, believing that it will be the one thing that magically secures them an outstanding. It’s pathetic.
I would do as little as possible and let this situation crash and burn.

Much more likely to be a retention strategy to keep a hen’s-tooth scientist.

pleasehelpwi3 · 06/11/2023 00:16

Reddishraddish · 05/11/2023 20:30

but this is a task you have been asked to do during your working hours for the benefit of the students, so YABU not to do it. Schools rely on team work to get the best for the children.

If you are being sked to do it at the weekend, I see your point, but otherwise, just do it

I'm not sure this is a teacher writing. Anyway, I'd ignore this comment. Everyone is spot on. Meet, feign polite ignorance, cover yourself. Don't do anything else.
As for the £3k TLR being minimal, in primary it's now common for everyone to be a subject lead- in their free time! My friend is English lead and doesn't get a TLR for it!

Hankunamatata · 06/11/2023 00:18

Urgh. This happens again and again in the nhs. If you can tick all the little boxs on the interview scoring sheet and know buzz words then you get the job. You might be completely crap as long as you talk the talk in the interview. Even worse ma agers hands are tied to give the job to the highest point scorer

Hankunamatata · 06/11/2023 00:20

I'd meet, go over what you did verbally and leave it at that.

Dinglewoop · 06/11/2023 00:22

I think YABU to not go to what sounds like a handover meeting. I would just meet with her, explain what you've already done and handover contacts (basically reiterate what you've said in your email) and leave it there. To not do this leaves you at the risk of looking a bit bitter. If she wants on going help, there should be a deputy role with a salary and time to match - you shouldn't be expected to do loads of extra work for nothing.

NutellaNut · 06/11/2023 00:35

Wow, you’ve been a lot more helpful already than I would have been in your shoes. You provided access to your work and ideas, what’s more than enough. By all means meet with the teacher, smile sweetly and don’t give them one more iota of information. Box ticked with the SLT on meeting them and appearing to be helpful. Don’t share another crumb of info though. Let them sink or swim with their own ‘forward thinking’ ideas.