AIBU to not sit down with this colleague?

[Bella60]

Okay, so had to name change for this one! Last year I was in a temporary management position at my school (I’m an English teacher) and part of my role was to promote whole-school literacy. I implemented a vocabulary online programme to KS3; I held parent assemblies about reading; I created monthly newsletters based around reading and book recommendations; I held a book club each week; visited other schools and did other stuff in the quest to improve literacy in the school and I had data to prove these things were starting to make an impact. Anyway, the Head then decided they wanted a ‘whole-school literacy lead’ so I applied for the position along with a science teacher. The science teacher got the job. Honestly, I’m fine about it because in hindsight it’s a mammoth task. The stuff I was doing was fun but the job description was huge! Last week, the science teacher who got the job asked for a sit down so she can go through all the things I did last year regarding literacy because she and SLT are keen to continue what I was doing. She said in the email she was also keen to hear what ideas I have for the future. So, I emailed back and gave her my contacts for the vocab builder platform and recommended a zoom call with them. I listed the things I had done last year and talked about what worked well but didn’t agree to meet her. Now SLT are turning up the heat and insisting I meet with her telling me that because I’m an English teacher I’m more knowledgeable about literacy and it’s ’my duty’ to support her and the school. (They actually said those words) WTAF?? I’m normally really laid back and will help anyone but I feel there’s a line here- I’m thinking if I wasn’t good enough for the position then why now are my ideas good enough?? What do you think? Am I being out of order by not sitting down with this teacher or should I stand my ground and say no?

Surely then, given she has the knowledge on this, she should have been given the job!

The other person got the job. Presumably as they also have at least the same knowledge as OP. So why do they need her info?

If you like working there, you'll have to suck it up and put it down to experience.

Meet and talk a lot whilst contributing nothing of use/originality. Make sure you sound very enthusiastic about anything she says. Make notes of what was said as soon as the meeting is done.

It sounds like you could get a better job elsewhere too. So maybe use this as a springboard to go elsewhere.

You’re being completely unprofessional not to do a quality handover of the work you were leading last year, while you were in a temporary management position. That kind of thing comes with being a a manager.

Ongoing support wise, you’re only obliged to do what’s within your current role. However, that doesn’t take away your obligation to appropriately close out or handover an activity associated with a role
you previously held.

An email is not a quality handover.

SLT are putting her on a path to join them and needed an available subject lead as a stepping stone. She possibly also made noises about promotion and moving on if not possible there.

They know that you’re “laid back” and feel they can get the best of both worlds, using your expertise to assist her.

Your email sounds really helpful. I would agree to meet (in directed hours) and just bounce questions back, agree they’re really important, ask her her thoughts, let silences hang. You wouldn’t be doing her any long term favours by spoon feeding her subject knowledge because she needs to have her own resource routes.

I would meet them but stick to what you outlined in your email and give it a decent handover and offer support on the things you've already done. But I wouldn't give additional new ideas, I wouldn't support with book clubs etc unless it's your job role. Ask the science teacher what her ideas are and you can both talk about those. But make notes on what you talk about. By not meeting the teacher you look unsupportive even if your email has all the info. What I'm saying is you need to play the game to not look petty

I read Less Than Zero as a 12 yo and that fucked with my brain! I snuck it off my parent's bookshelf!

Add Irvine Welsh to the reading list while we are at it, contemporary and can link to a film club

This happened to me. Young, new, male teacher got the job I’d been doing as an ‘Acting’. I ended up still doing the job as he was useless and I had to work with him and couldn’t let the kids down.

When he (inevitably) moved on, he got sacked for incompetence and actually messaged me as he’d finally realised all I’d done for him

This sort of thing helps no one and yet SLT do it all the time as a ‘perk’ for the favoured ones.

You’ve done your bit, handed over, now step away and let them see what they’ve done. Just ‘grey rock’ - I found if I ignored stuff for long enough people eventually stopped asking.

I'd be wary of saying "no new ideas" -I'd just briefly cover any new ideas I'd presented at interviews (but make it clear that you didn't get the job so they may be no good)

Else you will look petty to those who lead you if you refuse to explain ideas you'd already given to the seniors.

(But only briefly in a handover meeting)

Its normal to have a meeting with the person taking over the role, to do a handover, so I wouldn't refuse a handover meeting, I think this will come across as petty, as it gives the chance for someone to ask questions and clarify things in a way that email doesn't.

However you're not obliged to carry on the role given its not part of your job description and you're not obliged to give ongoing support. I'd point them in the direction of any resources you found useful and be there for questions as you would normally for a colleague and leave it as that.

It’s unreasonable to refuse to have a meeting with an internal colleague. Do the meeting.

Not read the full thread but do not in anyway say you are out of ideas or incompetent.

I would go to the meeting and turn it all on the colleague.

How exciting to have a new literacy initiative?
What are their new ideas?
How are they going to deliver the new literacy programme
What areas are they going to change now you are in charge etc etc
Be positive and supportive verbally but do not get dragged into doing anything physical

Sit smile and dont get pushed into increasing your workload!

I think you should attend a meeting, go through the current situation and leave it at that. If she’s asking for ideas I’d say something like “ensuring you incorporated any feedback to enhance the current initiatives” and “working to make them fully integrated into the school culture” or something like that. I find the phrase “I’m sure you want to make the role your own” or “you want to make your own impression on the role” very useful when people are expecting you to do all the thinking for them.

So a tip from the Civil Service. I would meet (providing it was in work time obviously). When asked on your views for the future I would reply. I would keep on executing the strategy I have developed at this stage. I would then think about the holistic needs to readers as a whole and think about a multi-tiered approach which looks at a number of different strands to improve reading competency. I think this needs you to go away and consider…

That is total bollocks and says nothing but it sounds good and will send your detractors away for the moment.

I actually had this and went with honesty "I'm sorry, you didn't think I was worthy of the promotion so you can't expect me to upskill the person you promoted ahead of me. If they didn't have the skills they needed then that's on you"...It was a bit different as ours was a tick the list promotion board and most of the competencies didn't actually come into our role but was across spectrum, think "test lead" but the questions were about "food testing" and my job was "teddy testing", so a food tester got the top job in the teddy testing area. Weirdly another post magically opened up and I was then promote alongside her with an objective to get her to the same level.

It's a bit of a work to rule type mentality that has to come into play, I'm assuming as a teacher that you don't get bonuses and due to staff shortages they're unlikely to manage you out...so go in, do your job as it stands and go home again. They currently don't deserve anymore than that!

Oh and mention feedback loops and child centred learning… you could if you were really up for it pay bollocks bingo in the meeting.

Sounds like fun, doesn’t it.

I have never worked in a school but I have worked in three tertiary education institutions and the hiring is just as frustrating. Before leaving HE, I was stuck on a pay grade far below my ability (and didn't come close to reflecting my qualifications or workload) for years yet I saw other people being launched through the ranks by management. It's all funny handshakes, if-your-face-fits, and jobs being created for the "right" people.

OP, you're in a shite position and I'm sorry. Your SLT is being unbelievably cheeky but I agree with PPs that you should meet with your colleague simply so that nobody can accuse you of being uncooperative or petty. If they have questions about the resources you have already sent, answer them but don't give any new ideas. (Politely) emphasise that it's their job now.

They should have given you the job if they wanted your ideas!

Tbh I would feel resentful and I probably wouldn't meet her. Just say you are too busy focussing on your current role but wish her well. If SLT come back to you, say that you did apply for the job but unfortunately were not offered it and so your focus is on your current role.

I disagree.

I think it actually puts OP in quite an unfair position, to tell her she wasn't good enough to get the job, but then make her meet the person who did get the job and tell them all her brilliant ideas.

That is humiliating and I wouldn't do it.

If they want you to do the job, then they should have given you the job, though it sounds as though you're just as happy to leave it.

I agree with @Sparklesocks , have a meeting but come up with no new ideas and if pressed, perhaps suggest that you didn't get the job because the science teacher was obviously better experienced.

That's assuming you definitely don't want the job if the science teacher bails because she's got no idea what she's doing.

What a bloody cheek. I wouldn't be putting myself out to help under these circumstances.

I was going to say schools work differently in this stuff. If it were a corporate company then I think you’d be fine to say no, but in a school environment it’s just not going to fly.

You would be better off approaching SLT and being honest. Say that you aren’t happy with being side lined for the promotion (did it come with extra money?) and yet are now being expected to help the person whose job it is. I think you’d look less petty f you were just open about it.

Meet with her, talk though the things you did last year, sharing any resources, and wish her well. Don't offer up any new initiatives, that's exactly what's she's been appointed for.

I realise this is a joke idea but am amused at the prospect of a whole class competing in boldly going in order to set off the klaxon...

Sounds like she could talk the talk in the interview but is now struggling. I am a teacher, SLT, etc, etc. I really don’t understand why she got the job over you. So basically you are doing the job but somebody else is getting paid for it. It’s laughable and I’d 100% be looking for another job. You are better than that!

Completely agree.