Page 30 | Man in ladies loo (with little daughter)

CallmePaul · 2023-11-04T21:15:09+00:00

Hello Mumsnet, 1st poster here. So I'm the man in question here, my 4yr old girl needed the loo in a big store today, went into the men's, stinky & horrible & the only 1 available cubicle is engaged, the disabled one is locked & my little one is busting. I opened the ladies door, wow much nicer than the men's! I asked loudly if it was OK if a man came in with his little girl to the loo, got an OK from a cubicle, business attended to. Washing her & my hands afterwards I got a pretty loud tut & mumble of humph womans toilets, from a lady who just entered, I get it, I'm a bloke in a ladies loos, I really shouldn't be in there. I've never taken her in the ladies before, always the men's & some pretty nasty loos at times. So acceptable behaviour from me or was I out of order?

backtowinter · 06/11/2023 14:11

ginasevern · 06/11/2023 13:59

Gosh, how wonderful to see such dynamic mothers all in one place whose parenting skills are almost superhuman. If only I'd known when my son was little that toilet emergencies were a result of my own stupidity.

Did you use the gents with your DS. If not, why not?

ginasevern · 06/11/2023 14:12

@SwirlyWhirls

I know, I feel so bloody inadequate now.

Itsjustagoogleaway · 06/11/2023 14:16

saffy2 · 06/11/2023 11:12

I didn’t want him going to the men’s toilets. I didn’t want him exposed to grown men’s genitals at the urinals, whether I’m there or not. He would still be able to see them. Another reason why I’m shocked anyone would say to take a small girl into the men’s toilets. I must discuss this with my partner, because I do not
want her going into the men’s. I assumed he would be taking her to the ladies when he takes her to the toilets. But after reading this, it’s not a given. But I will be stipulating that he must take her into the ladies.
I think the hysteria on this thread is ridiculous. You’d rather a small child (male or female) be exposed to mens genitalia than a man, walk through an area where no women are exposed at all, because all women use cubicles. This is madness to me.

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You taking your young son Into the ladies is not the same.

You are the adult…you are female…..you use the ladies with whoever you have charge of.
Your dh is the adult.,…your dh is male……he uses the mens with whoever he has charge of.

Your dh can shout into the mens to make sure it’s all ok for your daughter to enter. Just like @LolaSmiles suggested.

Your dh should not be in the so end, vulnerable women could be there and with or without a child will be a threat to them emotionally.

Perhaps you could suggest to your dh he finds out where the parent and child, disabled and unisex toilets are. There’s often toilets in the baby change facilities too.

Bumblebee1988 · 06/11/2023 14:16

Itsjustagoogleaway · 06/11/2023 14:06

The long queues for womens toilets and
now we are expected to wait to use them whilst men are in there.

Maybe….just maybe the women are also desperate for the toilet.
The fact that we give birth means we cannot hold on for long.

Or is it ok for women to wet themselves whilst we wait for men to leave our toilets. Men still on top I see.

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It has nothing to do with men "still on top." So in this situation, a pretty empty toile block, a little 4 year old girl desperate for a wee (who was not ready yet to go on her own) you would say no to her and her dad and tell her to wait and use the men's?

There is not always a long queue and wasn't in this situation. I very much doubt the dad would have waited in it if there was!! I'm talking about a fairly empty block of toilets like the OP described.

saffy2 · 06/11/2023 14:18

WomensRightsRenegade · 06/11/2023 13:04

The only hysteria here is anyone pretending that a 4 year old girl can’t wait for a few moments until a cubicle in the men’s is free. There are endless situations where she would have to wait - on a long drive, or even if she went to women’s toilets with her mum where there was a queue.

And if the men’s is gross then that’s not women’s problem. There are also many situations where the girl have to use a gross unisex toilet eg on a plane or train.

The point about a 4yr old girl going on her own into the women’s toilets is that if they are women only she is at virtually no risk of coming to any harm. That is only the case when men are present.

Its a great point about 4 year old boys too - would the OP take his son into the women’s? With his level of aggressive entitlement, I’m guessing yes actually. How have men survived for the last 100 years without accompanying their daughters into women-only spaces? All these ridiculous hypotheticals (‘there might not be another toilet within 2 days’ travel’ etc) just make it even more absurd.

No men in women’s spaces. None.

What?! Only men are predators?! Only men are abusers?! Only men are abductors? Are you mad or just deluded?! And I presume you’re living in a black hole 🤦🏽‍♀️

myra hindley
maxine carr
rose west
vanessa george

I could probably continue…

Itsjustagoogleaway · 06/11/2023 14:18

Bumblebee1988 · 06/11/2023 14:16

It has nothing to do with men "still on top." So in this situation, a pretty empty toile block, a little 4 year old girl desperate for a wee (who was not ready yet to go on her own) you would say no to her and her dad and tell her to wait and use the men's?

There is not always a long queue and wasn't in this situation. I very much doubt the dad would have waited in it if there was!! I'm talking about a fairly empty block of toilets like the OP described.

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I was responding to the poster telling women they should wait if they feel threatened by a man in the womens toilets.
They should not.

ginasevern · 06/11/2023 14:21

@backtowinter

Did I take my son into the gents when he was little? Sometimes, sometimes not. If there were men at the urinals then no, I didn't. Either way, I would not have let my 4 year old son go into the men's or ladies public loos on his own and I'm honestly staggered that any parent would.

Itsjustagoogleaway · 06/11/2023 14:23

ginasevern · 06/11/2023 14:21

@backtowinter

Did I take my son into the gents when he was little? Sometimes, sometimes not. If there were men at the urinals then no, I didn't. Either way, I would not have let my 4 year old son go into the men's or ladies public loos on his own and I'm honestly staggered that any parent would.

Quite agree.
Nor would I go into the mens with my young son as I am a grown woman.

gannett · 06/11/2023 14:28

WomensRightsRenegade · 06/11/2023 13:04

The only hysteria here is anyone pretending that a 4 year old girl can’t wait for a few moments until a cubicle in the men’s is free. There are endless situations where she would have to wait - on a long drive, or even if she went to women’s toilets with her mum where there was a queue.

And if the men’s is gross then that’s not women’s problem. There are also many situations where the girl have to use a gross unisex toilet eg on a plane or train.

The point about a 4yr old girl going on her own into the women’s toilets is that if they are women only she is at virtually no risk of coming to any harm. That is only the case when men are present.

Its a great point about 4 year old boys too - would the OP take his son into the women’s? With his level of aggressive entitlement, I’m guessing yes actually. How have men survived for the last 100 years without accompanying their daughters into women-only spaces? All these ridiculous hypotheticals (‘there might not be another toilet within 2 days’ travel’ etc) just make it even more absurd.

No men in women’s spaces. None.

No, the absurd thing is the idea that women can't differentiate between a stressed and embarrassed-looking dad trying to look after his daughter (I have encountered this man in the ladies) and a menacing sexual predator deliberately encroaching on a women's space (I have yet to personally encounter this) and we have to conflate them as the exact same A MAN IN A WOMEN'S TOILET scenario. I would assume the latter would be a man on his own rather than with a 4-year-old girl though?

MavisMcMinty · 06/11/2023 14:32

I suspect the whole point of Paul’s thread was to demonstrate that women are happy for SOME men (Great Dads) to come into our single-sex women-only spaces, so us wanting to keep out MtF trans people is pure prejudice/transphobia.

Well done the 62%, bloody well done.

ginasevern · 06/11/2023 14:34

@WomensRightsRenegade

You are deluded if you think that only men are predators. I absolutely agree that they account for the vast majority of them and they are indeed responsible for most other vile acts on this planet. However, it would be extremely dangerous as a parent or caregiver to a vulnerable individual to assume that only men are capable of causing harm or distress.

WomensRightsRenegade · 06/11/2023 14:38

You are the deluded one if you think predatory behaviour in women is anything but vanishingly rare. Nearly 99pc of sexual crime (the predatory kind) is committed by men.

Please stop your attempts at a ludicrously false equivalence along the lines of ‘man bites dog’

Many mothers, myself included, tell their young children to go up to a woman and ask for help if they get lost. Never in my life have I heard a parent say ‘go and find a man’

YinrunIsMySpiritAnimal · 06/11/2023 14:41

Bang out of order.

Women are too afraid to say a man can’t come in. I’ve done it before and got a load of abuse I wouldn’t do it again.

Would you have taken a boy in the ladies loo? Your 4yo won’t die from being in a smelly toilet. She will barely care. This infantilising of little girls is pathetic.

Please don’t do it again OP. You’re shitting all over women simply so your DD doesn’t have to ensure an unpleasant smell.

ginasevern · 06/11/2023 14:48

@WomensRightsRenegade

Yes, I agree with you (see my previous post). The overwhelming majority of sexual predation, murders, rapes and domestic violence involve men. But my love and duty towards my child is more important than statistics. I have never taken any chances and would not allow my very young child in public toilets on their own. Other children can be a danger too.

ilovesooty · 06/11/2023 15:00

YinrunIsMySpiritAnimal · 06/11/2023 14:41

Bang out of order.

Women are too afraid to say a man can’t come in. I’ve done it before and got a load of abuse I wouldn’t do it again.

Would you have taken a boy in the ladies loo? Your 4yo won’t die from being in a smelly toilet. She will barely care. This infantilising of little girls is pathetic.

Please don’t do it again OP. You’re shitting all over women simply so your DD doesn’t have to ensure an unpleasant smell.

He made it clear that the smell wasn't the main issue.

YinrunIsMySpiritAnimal · 06/11/2023 15:01

ilovesooty · 06/11/2023 15:00

He made it clear that the smell wasn't the main issue.

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It doesn’t matter - it wasn’t his place to go in there and he wouldn’t have taken a little boy in

ButWhatAboutTheBees · 06/11/2023 15:11

The point about a 4yr old girl going on her own into the women’s toilets is that if they are womenonly she is at virtually no risk of coming to any harm. That is only the case when men are present.

Except from female abductors...

Or just from the fact she is a small child in a place NOT BUILT FOR HER. She could slip trying to get on to an adult size loo, or slip into it. She could hurt herself on a heavy door. She can't reach to wash her hands. She could end up pulling something on top of her whilst trying to reach hand towels...

ilovesooty · 06/11/2023 15:36

MavisMcMinty · 06/11/2023 14:32

I suspect the whole point of Paul’s thread was to demonstrate that women are happy for SOME men (Great Dads) to come into our single-sex women-only spaces, so us wanting to keep out MtF trans people is pure prejudice/transphobia.

Well done the 62%, bloody well done.

You're effectively accusing him of being a TRA. He's never mentioned the trans issue.

Soontobe60 · 06/11/2023 17:54

BottleShipDown · 04/11/2023 23:02

To all the women that have been hurt, abused and harassed by men - it’s not acceptable and it needs to change. As a society we need to change things.

Getting triggered by things into flashbacks to trauma is awful. It truly is. Therapy can help.

We can’t set the world up to completely avoid triggers. I was assaulted in a park. I can’t avoid parks.

Whilst it’s important that we have safe, women only, spaces, public toilets are ever really completely safe. Anyone can walk in in reality. Mostly though it works fine - and everyone is fine. The odd dad taking his kid in isn’t the worst thing in the world. He called out to check first and was with a 4 year old child. The context was obvious.

Also, most men aren’t dangerous. Lots of men are kind and compassionate human beings. Most violent crime is committed by men, but most men don’t commit violent crimes.

This was a dad. First and foremost. With a small female child desperate for the toilet. He’s not the enemy. He’s a human being, with a small child needing the loo who is now asking a question on a forum.

Why can’t you avoid parks? I could understand if you said you couldn’t avoid, say, supermarkets, but parks? I’d assume they’re fairly easy to avoid!

Soontobe60 · 06/11/2023 18:01

Bubblesoffun · 05/11/2023 22:04

@Soontobe60 @Windywuss

sorry but it’s not misogyny. I’m a woman as well however I will brand all or most of mumsnet as Misandrists… “off to google you go”

Maybe just internalised misogyny then.