Man in ladies loo (with little daughter)

[CallmePaul]

Hello Mumsnet, 1st poster here.

So I'm the man in question here, my 4yr old girl needed the loo in a big store today, went into the men's, stinky & horrible & the only 1 available cubicle is engaged, the disabled one is locked & my little one is busting.
I opened the ladies door, wow much nicer than the men's! I asked loudly if it was OK if a man came in with his little girl to the loo, got an OK from a cubicle, business attended to.

Washing her & my hands afterwards I got a pretty loud tut & mumble of humph womans toilets, from a lady who just entered, I get it, I'm a bloke in a ladies loos, I really shouldn't be in there.

I've never taken her in the ladies before, always the men's & some pretty nasty loos at times.

So acceptable behaviour from me or was I out of order?

I’d feel differently if the OP gave any indication that they stuffed up by not parenting adequately so that an emergency trip to a women’s only space was not needed.

We all know little kids are prone to toileting emergencies. Most parents do their best to manage this by taking their kids to the toilet regularly when they are out. It’s not clear from the OP that this happened but I’m inclined to think it didn’t based on his responses.

There should have been no need for this and you should be mortified and looking to change how you parent to make sure this doesn’t happen again.

I agree that you are looking for validation rather than a discussion.

I have no issue with this at all, as a (biological) woman.
You made it clear you were coming in and your daughter probably felt happier in there than in the men's (if it was as unpleasant as you suggest).
This though is another example of where unisex toilets with individual cubicles would make more sense.

You cannot see how that isn't the same at all? A public toilet versus a toilet within a school?

what difference would it have made? if that cubicle was bring used, OP would still have gone to the ladies. There was a perfectly usable loo in the gents, it was just briefly occupied.

If all the toilets were individual and unisex then he would just have used the next available one.

The loo in the gents was no more suitable than the one in the ladies, which was also free.

There is no issue with this, and trying to make it one is just pointless.

@CallmePaul you did nothing wrong.

My uni made all self contain toilets unisex. By this I mean all toilets which have a toilet, basin, hand drier, bin, sanitary bins and a lock. It made such a difference on campus as you were closer to toilets. It used to be quite frustrating traipsing to the ladies in the other side of the building when there gents toilet was next to you. All new buildings can only have these toilets so the traditional "ladies" and "gents" toilets are being phased out. If you can everything you need behind a locked door it doesn't matter what the sign on the door is

Yes, I hope that newer buildings see this as the way forward and that as many older ones as possible attempt to update to this sort of model. It works so much better.

There is always an issue with a man being in the ladies. The loo in the gents was clearly suitable for the man.

The loo in the gents was clearly suitable for the man.

But not for his daughter. But she clearly doesn’t matter.

The sooner we get rid of single sex loos, the better life will be for everyone. It’s good to see them being introduced in new and refurbished buildings.

Even 'enclosed' unisex toilets just mean more covert filming and devices planted. It's a huge issue. I wouldn't feel comfortable in them; the problem is massive in the Far East and there's no reason why it won't spread here.

There isn't always an issue with a man being in the ladies, for example in this case where he had a small daughter. It's irrelevant what was suitable for him, because it wasn't him who needed to use the toilet.

I’ve never actually discussed this with my partner, but I should. Because I don’t really want my daughter going into men’s toilets tbh. You’re right they are disgusting!
I think it’s fine and I wouldn’t have a problem with it if I was in there.

Any references for this?

I'd feel no less comfortable in an enclosed toilet than the current common set up with cubicles.

Super surprised people have suggested she could have gone on her own. That’s absolute madness in a public place imo, and if you’d come home as my partner and told me you’d let her go in alone I’d be pissed off.
my eldest was probably 9 before I let him go into toilets alone, until then he came into the ladies with me.

I would not let my 4 year old use public loos on their own. No fucking way. Going to the loo at school alone is a whole different ball game and is a daft example. You did the right thing OP so don't take any notice of the pearl clutchers on here. Taking her into the men's toilet could have exposed her to a naked penis and I was under the impression (judging by other MN threads) that this was the devil's own work or does it only apply to transwomen's naked penises?

I'm not sure the fact it was smelly was a good enough excuse. Little boys would have to put up with it. Wiping the seat down with a wet wipe first should have done the job. Public toilets do tend to be smelly, even ladies ones.

There are no excuses indeed, there are reasons though.

Same.

It was occupied. And she needed to go urgently.

Yes but only women use 'Women''s cubicle toilets. I daresay the odd man might slip in, cleaners etc, but a man there would be challenged (I hope). Unisex is open to everyone at all times and gives that type of scumbag ample opportunity. Stacey Dooley made a very disturbing programme about spycam voyeurism - people are very naive to think that some men won't take advantage of free access to spaces where women are unclothed/naked. Single sex facilities are best for women and girls, they don't guarantee absolute safety and dignity but the closest we can get to it.

Never?

Cleaners
Plumbers
Security
Electricians
Premises staff making sure the building is clear
Builders

As he is a boy, was there a reason you didn't accompany him to the gents?

General

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

https://fairplayforwomen.com/changing_rooms/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/03/single-sex-toilets-to-be-compulsory-in-all-new-public-buildings
(I’d prefer to see third spaces in addition to, rather than instead of, single-sex facilities. Doubling up the disabled facilities as baby changing rooms is not sufficient, and unfair to those who campaigned hard for those spaces).

And specifics:

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/2082311.unisex-changing-room-rethink-second-pervert-strikes/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/28/essex-schoolgirls-sexually-assaulted-gender-neutral-toilets/

There’s also a voyeur’s website strap-lined ‘restroom video compilation’ and many variations on this particular theme. I won’t link these. They are unlikely to make pleasant viewing.