Man in ladies loo (with little daughter)

[CallmePaul]

Hello Mumsnet, 1st poster here.

So I'm the man in question here, my 4yr old girl needed the loo in a big store today, went into the men's, stinky & horrible & the only 1 available cubicle is engaged, the disabled one is locked & my little one is busting.
I opened the ladies door, wow much nicer than the men's! I asked loudly if it was OK if a man came in with his little girl to the loo, got an OK from a cubicle, business attended to.

Washing her & my hands afterwards I got a pretty loud tut & mumble of humph womans toilets, from a lady who just entered, I get it, I'm a bloke in a ladies loos, I really shouldn't be in there.

I've never taken her in the ladies before, always the men's & some pretty nasty loos at times.

So acceptable behaviour from me or was I out of order?

I wonder what all the absolutely appalled women on here would have done had they entered those particular toilets

been scared, nervous, afraid. Does that make it better?

You are saying the OP was not ok to do what he did. Most people on this thread can’t see an alternative solution. So if you say it’s not ok, you must have an idea of what you might have done in the same situation? I’m not asking you to support any one. I’m just asking you to support your opinion with some kind of reasonable alternative action he could have taken.

We need more family friendly toilets. We need more safe spaces for women. We need to address male to female violence and abuse. How would letting a 4 year old have an accident help with any of that?

You either used the word fetish or quoted and backed up a poster that did. I can’t remember and can’t be bothered to check because this is batshit crazy.

This is reaching! And sadly demonstrates my earlier point perfectly.

The only solution is for enough men to band together to campaign for safer spaces
for dads to take their kids. (I wish they would, but fear they won't, not for some time at least). And I can imagine would open up another can of worms sadly about the abuse of such spaces 😣

or..for them to stay at home and never take their young kids out alone ever without mum with them ever. Because in spite of what some posters have said not all 4 year olds are yet mature, competent or confident enough yet to go into the toilet by themselves. Like so many things it is difficult to generalise.

That solution is on the OP.

Women are not support humans. It is not automatically our responsibility to fix the issues of the rest of the world. Despite what The Patriarchy may have told you.

Quite.

The men I’m close to, have somehow managed to raise daughters without invading women’s spaces or posting stuff which could appear goady on women dominated forums. Amazing really.

Fwiw I don’t actually personally feel threatened if a man came in with his dd.

But it’s interesting (and annoying) how to some women, it’s a “female only space” until to them it suddenly magically isn’t. They’ll scream until they’re blue in the face about how they don’t want a 9 year old boy in there with his mum because it’s a female space, but it’s all cool for an actual grown man to be in their with his daughter.
My arguments on this thread have purely been for arguments sake and fully directed at any women who moan about boys but would allow a man. You’re just going against your own morals.

Gotcha? What does that mean? I feel so sad that there are women who have been so badly traumatised by men that they hate men. It’s dreadful and makes me genuinely sad. Sorry if my post came across as flippant. It certainly wasn’t. Trauma is no joke. But that doesn’t mean what this dad did was wrong.

Yes I have children hence I know that it's very possible to avoid the situation the OP encountered.

Babies wear nappies. We are not talking about babies. We are talking about a child who is, on average, at least a year past potty training.

Assuming that you mean a big room with cubicles in it by unisex loos, I would have left the venue, gone elsewhere, and complained to the management in writing when I got home.

If I was having a bowel condition flareup, I'd have used the disabled loo and then left and complained.

Most people, men and women, want and expect single-sex loos.

Probably cause they were able to ask a female relative to go in with them. But situations like this do arise and many men would prefer not to have to enter a women's space - they aren't all delighted at the prospect.

The original OP wasn’t goady. The OP handled some pretty horrible posts with equal and even more restrained language than some incredibly goady posters.

I think most dads, faced with that situation woukd do the same for their daughter’s dignity.

If those options had been available I’m sure that’s what the OP would have done. His daughter was desperate. There was no alternative. Hence him hand wringing about having had to do it.

This would be fine with me but this thread demonstrates that many women would not be fine. They would rather your 4 year old struggled alone or wet herself waiting for the men's cubicle to come available. I'd be surprised to find a lone male in there but a father with his daughter, having asked permission of the occupants, fine with me.

I wish all toilets were unisex tbh, spare us all the angst.

Please do tell me when I told a PP they were disgusting? You are seriously mistaken. I made a general comment about posters on here being disgusting towards the op, and the lady you are jumping to defend commented on my post.

I can't follow your logic then. So you think we need single sex spaces even though we should not punish all men (so keeping them out of spaces is not punishing them??) we should not but that sometimes it's OK for men to go into women's spaces anyway. So they're sort of mostly single sex because we need to keep men out except when they're not cos we don't need to keep men out. When any men start going in, it makes it easier for the predatory ones.

I agree about the difference between a just 4 year old and a nearly 5 and many just 4s would struggle to negotiate the adult loos on their own. Which is why the dad should have waited for the cubicle in the men's to be free. How on earth people manage in crowded loos I don't know! I live in a busy city and every time I took my kids to the loo, we had to wait our turn. When they were too young to reliably hold it in for the few mins it takes to wait your turn, I took spare clothes in case we needed a change. It's all very manageable without creating a situation which effectively excludes some women from their own spaces.

Probably cause they were able to ask a female relative to go in with them. But situations like this do arise and many men would prefer not to have to enter a women's space - they aren't all delighted at the prospect.

Nope. My partner took our son and daughter out alone often. My partners friend has been a full time single dad to 2 girls since they were 3 and 1. They didn’t always take a woman out with them...wtaf? 🤣

They planned ahead, insisted kids went to the toilet before they asked, took spare clothes in case, planned where possible to go places with good facilities etc. They never ever went into a women’s toilet.

My experience of being a parent and working with children is that, at the age of 4, urgent toilet needs are frequent. They are learning and developing so much that they don’t notice their body’s signals and then suddenly need to go. Or, like adults, sometimes just need to go very quickly. You obviously have only met perfect children, with perfect toileting skills. Lucky you. I’ve been on the motorway countless times where we’ve passed services (any one need the loo? No!) and the five minutes past the services - ‘mum!!!! I need the loo’ Irritating. Annoying. But perfectly normal.

So many posters who, through superior planning and parenting, have never been in an emergency toileting situation with their child. I am sure most of us have the imagination to understand what it would be like if it happened though.

Ideally at 4, you could open the main door to the toilets and watch your daughter go into a cubicle herself. At 4, most kids are capable of using the toilet alone (but I get not letting her in there alone because of safety) Just stay stood at the threshold and explain to the women coming in and out what you were doing, but don't actually enter the toilets.

The original OP wasn’t goady. The OP handled some pretty horrible posts with equal and even more restrained language than some incredibly goady posters.

You are incredible naive if your believe that. But then you’ve already admitted you didn’t know there were piss and poo trolls on here so you are naive to some people’s motives on here.

I think most dads, faced with that situation woukd do the same for their daughter’s dignity.

Decent men don’t invade women’s spaces. It’s very simple for those men.

If only I had had those skills 😂

My 12 year old DC still sometimes misses the signals and we have to do an about-turn.

I’m not at all naive. I just can fully imagine my DH having exactly the same dilemma and posting exactly the same thread.

He didn’t ‘invade’ he called out and asked permission. What could he have done differently? If he’s such a twat then he needs educating. Tell him the alternative. There was no available cubicle in the men’s (I wouldn’t want her in there anyway if it was my daughter), no easy access toilet available. He called out to check it was OK. His daughter was desperate and might have had an accident.

"Those thinking I avoided the men's because it stank are completely wrong, I've used it with her before, it's pretty foul but IT WAS OCCUPIED!"

You need to plan your trips out better.