Man in ladies loo (with little daughter)

[CallmePaul]

Hello Mumsnet, 1st poster here.

So I'm the man in question here, my 4yr old girl needed the loo in a big store today, went into the men's, stinky & horrible & the only 1 available cubicle is engaged, the disabled one is locked & my little one is busting.
I opened the ladies door, wow much nicer than the men's! I asked loudly if it was OK if a man came in with his little girl to the loo, got an OK from a cubicle, business attended to.

Washing her & my hands afterwards I got a pretty loud tut & mumble of humph womans toilets, from a lady who just entered, I get it, I'm a bloke in a ladies loos, I really shouldn't be in there.

I've never taken her in the ladies before, always the men's & some pretty nasty loos at times.

So acceptable behaviour from me or was I out of order?

So... as adult women our 'comfort level' is more important than a 4 year old pooing themselves due to lack of other facilities? Is that what we're saying?

I've been in situations that have been traumatising and I've experienced feeling intimidated by men but we're talking about a dad taking his kid to the toilet here, a normal thing for a parent to do. Personally I'd suck it up cause the kid's needs are more important than my neuroses...

I think I'm a decent human being & trying my best & stumbling along the way, to be a decent parent too.

I think it's you who's goady, judgemental, makes ridiculous assumptions for your own bizarre agenda & pretty rude to a 1st time poster.

Thanks for the warm welcome.

I'd be absolutely fine with this. You shouted in and asked first. You had a young female child with you. Only ridiculous women would be offended in my opinion. I'd just see a good Dad and an urgent loo situ. Blimey, some people! Carry on being the lovely Dad you are.

In my opinion it was a lot better than taking her in the mens

My 10yo had asd and I'd hate the thought of her dad taking her into the men's 🤢

Yep time for bed , there are some really nasty people on this thread .

Honestly @CallmePaul you want to pop over to the thread entitled

’i just have no words’.

you’re getting off lightly compared to what everyone has to say about Suella Braverman on that thread.

What's that in English?

Thanks for the warm welcome.

You've read a whole thread of women talking about fetishists on here, and rapists in the world causing trauma, and explaining why we need boundaries, and that's your complaint. That women in a toilet, and women on here, didn't make you welcome enough.

I suggest you mull over what life may be like for your DD in the next few decades and whether you'd like her to have strong boundaries and attempt to protect herself. Whether she might like single sex spaces IRL and female-friendly spaces online and if that is more important than you feeling welcome everywhere.

Genuinely, why - other than a point of principle- would you nip in to have a wee ahead of a person who is disabled?

That is an incorrect assumption.

No principle it is what it is.
They are just another toilet.
Its not my rules.

I think people have missed the bit where OP said that the only cubicle in the gents was in use. It doesn't help that the girl's illness was disclosed in a later "drip-feed" post.

The last time I encountered a bloke in the women's, I stopped dead in my tracks and quavered out "erm, the gents' is the next door?" about an octave higher than usual. He turned beetroot and fled to the gents. Clearly a mistake, but I was still terrified. If he'd said "my daughter's ill and the gents' is occupied" I'd have waited outside until they were done. The OP's refusal to understand why the objecting woman objected remains a problem, even though his reasons for taking his daughter there on this occasion are sound.

No. I’m an architect.
I design these spaces and know the principles behind the statistics that we base our provision on.
[ Mind you the figures are all crap as women never have enough toilets, we ve been fighting that one for over 30 years, but that’s another matter )

youre basing your extremely rude comments on an assumption of who I am and what I would do.
I, however am correctly your incorrect statement about disabled toilets

You can understand it (which I do) while still thinking it’s ok for a dad to assist his 4yr old in a loo.

I didn't expect to feel welcomed, was expecting a rational debate, if 100% said I was in the wrong fair enough.

I was however surprised at being told to for example fuck off, or that I should have let my daughter soil herself because there was no other toilet option than the ladies, or I'm some sort of Walter Mitty character who's made this up for a bizarre fetish.

Thank you, I'll take that as a farewell. I think I'm done with this topic. I've spent far too much time on here tonight, surprised at the vitriol, but your post was lovely as were the majority.

I think it's fine. You can't have your little girl in the stinking mens bogs, that's not fair on her.

Lots of acid tongues on here.

Lots of acid tongues on here.

Yeah, how dare women speak like that. They should be polite at all times and always be ready to welcome men and make them feel special. Be more feminine and ‘smile ladies’. 🤮

Yeah fuck that!

I had a bad experience in a public toilet a few years ago, which was very nearly a lot worse. The thing that stayed with me most was that I probably could have stopped it if I'd just yelled or screamed, but I physically couldn't get any sound out. Human bodies can be fucking stupid under extreme stress.

If I'm in a toilet cubicle and I hear a male voice I go right back. I can't speak, my chest goes tight and I struggle to breathe. Even the cleaner at my gym, I can have a perfectly normal conversation with him while I'm on the treadmill but when I'm trapped in a toilet cubicle it's a completely different story. If you had called into the toilets while I was in there I physically wouldn't have been able to respond. It's stupid, irrational and frustrating but I can't control it.

I know my situation is probably pretty niche but I also know there are a hell of a lot of women who have been through worse than me, trauma can do strange things to a person and women need their safe spaces.

I personally don't use public toilets anymore unless in an absolute emergency because I can't control who comes in and I don't want to risk having to go through that. I'm not telling you what you should or shouldn't have done, I understand you will put your DD first and I absolutely wouldn't want her to have an accident or have to stand next to a grimy urinal. I just want you to think about the impact your actions might have on the people whose space you're going into, and weigh that up when you're making these decisions.

Omg no not.... A SANITARY TOWEL

😒

A sexually abusive past is the very reason I wouldn’t want my 4 year old daughter in the mens toilets, men standing at urinals with genitals exposed and her in a vulnerable position while men just out door/ next cubicle. What about her rights!! Exact same reason I would take my small son into ladies until I could be sure he knew how to keep himself safe! So no, I would not mind you taking her into ladies at all and would challenge any grown woman who thinks her rights trump your daughters.