To be so frustrated with shy child?

[LolleePopp]

What do you do with shy 12 year old boys???
My 12 year old DS is sooooo shy with other kids.
He says he's desperate to make friends at his new secondary school.
But he's too shy to engage with anybody.
So he's not making any friends.
He really, really wants to be friends with people. He's not a loner who prefers his own company. He's a loner who looks at everyone around him and wants to make friends but doesn't know how to.
He started secondary school in September saying he was really looking forward to starting a new school and making new friends.
8 weeks in, he's made no friends at all.
There's 1 boy who he'd like to make friends with. So I've encouraged him to invite this boy to meet up outside of school. I helped him come up with ideas to suggest. I texted the boy's mum to try and help organise something. She said her DS would be up for meeting but that she is trying to encourage her DS to be independent so she said could they sort it out between them rather than us mums organising it. I explained this to DS and encouraged him to invite this boy to meet up. But he just will not invite him, even though he wants to meet up with him. After a few weeks of me trying hard to encourage him, last night he said "I'm not going to invite him out mum, I'm just too shy to ask him".
So that's that then.
Another new boy from new school invited him out for a bike ride with him and 3 others. My DS went, and came home 3 hours later full of smiles saying he'd had a great time. But since then, the mum of one of the boys has told me that the other kids all said my DS was really quiet and didn't talk at all or engage with the rest of the kids who were all chatting and joking whilst on their bikes. She said the other kids said my DS was too quiet. Yet my DS thought he had a brilliant time with them and asked them to let him know when theyre going again as hed like to join in, but meanwhile this other mum said the other kids probably won't invite him out next time because my DS was so quiet they thought he wasn't having fun with them. When in fact he told me he had really good fun, so I relayed this to the mum, but she said "Well they've met up a few times since then but didn't invite your DS because he was so quiet". DS has seen them out cycling round together without him and looked crestfallen.
There's another boy he likes, so I've texted that mum and she told me she leaves her DS to arrange his own social life now he's started secondary. So I've told my DS this and encouraged him to invite this boy over to ours or to meet up, but again, my DS won't invite him.
He's been going to an out of school club for 1 year and hasn't made a single friend there.
He hates competitive sports, so he will not join any football or rugby groups (much to my DH's frustration - DH is not sports mad but he insists a team sport would be good for DS's confidence, but DS refuses). He tried cricket but dropped out after 2 months. I've suggested judo at my DH's suggestion - flat no, he absolutely hated the look of it when I showed him kids of his age doing judo on YouTube.
In primary, he had 5 friends but the dynamics between them in year 6 were awful, constant fall outs and unpleasant behaviour on a non stop basis, a lot of horrible behaviour aimed at him (as well as at each other) so they've all fallen by the wayside now.
DS is a brilliant person. He talks loads at home, really makes us all laugh, has amazing insight into things (insight that is superior to his age), understands people really well, has very high levels of emotional intelligence - there are so many situations on this level that he just 'gets' and can talk eloquently about things on an emotional level that other mums tell me their kids of same age can't do or don't get at all, he has lots of interests (but none them transfer in to clubs). He gets on brilliantly with his sister, who is not shy at all.
It's really weird - when he was a little boy he wasn't shy at all. He ran around with a big bright happy open expression on his face, he was born with a "Hello world!" temperament. Then around the age of 10, shyness kicked in, and 2 years later it's much worse. He's getting more shy as he gets older.
I can see that this comes across really badly to other kids.
We were out at an event the other evening, and throughout the event, several boys in his school year that know him smiled and said Hi to him on individual occasions (not a group of boys, but 1 boy, then 10 mins later another boy, etc.) and DS didn't smile back at any of them. He did reply to each of them with a hello, but he came across as so stand offish. I talked to him the next day about how he came across to them, but he just said "I'm so shy mum, I freeze and clam up when they speak to me, I hate it but I don't know what to do because I can't help it".
I've encouraged him to join clubs at school but he won't because he doesn't know anyone. Obviously I've explained that no-one knows anyone at first, but you go and then you get to know people. But he will not go.
I'm at the point where I despair.
I can see him spending 5 years at school not making any friends.
If he didn't care about friends and was happy in his own little world then I'd think fine, that's just how he is. But he tells me he really, really wants to make friends.
I've talked to his school about it and asked for their support, and they said he needs to join school clubs. That was their only solution and 3 different staff members have all said the same thing. But he won't go to these clubs.
So what do I do?!?

1. Back in the day kids used to knock on each other's door to "go out and play".
   Kids do not do this anymore.
   They use their phones.
   By not having a phone your DS has just got a brick wall at the front of his house. Other kids are just going to shrug and move on. They cannot easily let him know about bike rides/hanging out. So they won't.

2. Get him to join clubs at school. Speak to pastoral again and get them to agree a way to get him to the clubs. Tell them about the previous bullying so they understand he will have trust/confidence issues.

3. Get him to join scouts.

4. Let him know that he just hasn't met his tribe yet. He needs to realise Ben and Chloe are arseholes and not worth a moment thought. He will not magically become friends with them because he knows them. And actually, he does not want to be. They are scum. So if they think Scouts is lame...who gives a fuck. Better people will be there. Same with the school clubs. Don't talk to him about ignoring Chloe and Ben because they may say hurtful things. Talk to him about ignoring Ben and Chloe because they below his acceptable levels of people worth knowing.

5. Give him this to read https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0340911840/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Helps navigate some of this shit. And again, reminds him that arseholes opinions are worthless. He is worth more.

6. Another thought - we told DS to make friends with girls. Anecdotal, but boys who hung out with the girls, less likely to be the target of the utter thugs. Girls who were happy to hang out with boys, less likely to be the uber-bitches.

This. Surely he would know what a dork is?

You both/all need to stop using the word ‘shy’ it’s become a safe label, and a ‘get out’ of uncomfortable feelings.

He needs to realise that by not smiling or sounding enthusiastic when kids engage with him, he’s actually being rude. Get him to think about how he would feel if he said hi to others and got that reaction. Be really literal and direct when you talk it through, make it really clear what the social expectations are.

And yes, I hate kids with phones but it sounds like it could be a gateway for him to friendship that is more comfortable in the early stages, the other kids can get to know him a bit- find that he is someone worth hanging out with and getting to know.

OP, what are you suggesting? Because this thread has been incredibly supportive. You have been offered so much good advice. But have taken on board almost nothing. I feel really sad for your ds.

Your latest posts just make it worse.
You could do loads of things. Practical things. But it would 'appear' that you've done nothing.

Get him a phone
Write to Headmaster and HoY.
Make appointment with GP
Order 3 or 4 books suggested
Talk to him, arrange a plan, of things to try.

FGS at least do something.

Your son has had it really tough. I'm shocked at the school's attitude though. My year8 kid's best mate recently had an issue with some horrible stuff on social media, and this went straight to the head of safeguarding. Other kid's parents were involved immediately and some whole year PHSE interventions delivered. This is at an urban, very average achieving comp of the kind most MNers would seek to avoid, and I think it's a reasonable expectation that other schools would do the same.

The school also runs lunchtime activities that appeal to those who might get lost in the rough and tumble of unsupervised lunch breaks - LGBT club, languages club, book club etc. my older kid reckoned that the supposed theme of the groups were pretty low down on the agenda, and they were just nice places for quiet kids to gather.

If school can't support and manage this you really do need to think about what's on offer elsewhere. I know your son isn't keen, but with respect he's 11/12 and really struggling, so you might need to make this decision for him.

Many of the things he needs to learn he may only learn with time and life experience. You can keep telling him that the Chloe and Bens of this world are irrelevant and encouraging him to try and approach kids like himself. If either you or your husband have personal experience of being bullied then now is the time to share with him.

Scouts is a great option and normally pretty inexpensive if money is an issue . Your priority should also be persuading him to go to at least one club in school. It needs to be about helping him find his tribe rather than trying to fit in with kids that he doesn’t.

Is there any chance you are projecting on your child here OP? Sure it sounds like he has had a tough time, but you seem to have decided that he is an outcast and the next few years at school are going to be hell for him. That is a pretty tough script to carry for anyone. You need to back off from talking about him with other parents, he needs your love and support, you talking about him with other parents will just exacerbate his 'shyness'. You have seen him being outgoing and relaxed at home, so you need to champion this side of him, just keep reminding him of how he is at home and maybe back off from micromanaging things at school for him. It feels too much.

Have you kept your son very sheltered @LolleePopp?
Does he still only watch children’s shows? Play children’s games? Or have you let him grow up and access more mature content, not talking sex and violence but pre-teen and teen content? Because he sounds very young. He sounds like he doesn’t really “get” or like he hasn’t even heard of things kids his age should be around.

You maybe need to adjust your parenting to help bring his maturity along a little. I don’t mean all the stuff you say about his intelligence and insight. I mean real like things. He needs to start growing up. He needs to start getting a bit more resilient.

My oldest son is autistic and he is very intelligent, very much has “adult” conversations about the news and current events. He is only just 12 but he’ll engage in conversations around women’s rights/violence against women/rape/male violence. He’ll engage in political discussions and talk about the current debates in the House of Commons etc. It was like he skipped the kid stage. So… he doesn’t always fit in when kids are having kid chat. But he loves fantasy films and books, and loves playing board games with the family so I got him into a dungeons and dragons group. He plays with kids but also with adults and it’s the first time he has fit in. He loves it. He has found his tribe. He has also joined an orchestra, and again there are kids all the way up to 17 year olds and they are the kindest kids I’ve seen. Really welcoming to well, the weird kids! And he loves it. He has people now.

There will be something out there for your son. I couldn’t get my kid to pull back on his opinions and interests but I found him groups where it wouldn’t really come up and he could just have fun.

You can help your son mature and you will find groups of things he enjoys with a mix of ages, and he’ll develop his social understanding and find his people.

I have to admit Op is now reminding me of my parents - who had social issues of their own - putting blocks in front of things that could help and getting frustated their socially unacceptable ideas that would make it worse aren't taken up.

They did their very best but if felt like my parents just accepted the school shrugging about bullying. It was later in school but I actually got hit for answering a direct question from the teacher - guy in front turned round and punched me in the face - substitute teacher was shocked but did little. P/T meeting week later my parents relayed teachers frustration I was so quite in class - and head of year had come over and complained in person that I was too quiet in class - they all knew about incident but everything was always my fault.

I've pushed back with school on bullying - though sometime it is low level and little can be done - I've pushed back on complaints about my kids being quiet - that's their personality and they know that is fine with us their parents.

It was an additional reason I'm keen on kids going to college for A-levels - I was stuck in a school sixth form and with school and parents who'd written a script that I was bad with people and it was all my fault - thing is I am ND but I have found friends and can navigate work places - I was never as bad as portrayed and my own DC very similar have had more positive experiences and DD1 just started uni seems to have socially fitted in well and I think that's because she had the support to develop and improve her social skills.

Its good he doing drama if he enjoying it ( if he not then let him drop as not all groups are supportive or helpful) - and I would look at other groups - scouts so he has many outside school opportunities to develop social skills. DD2 is still friends at 14 with people she met at brownies and guides who she didn't go to school with till secondary.

DS doesn't do a huge amount of socialising outside of college /school but he did eventually end up in big social groups in both - and his friends sometimes insist he does some events with them - all arranged by them on discord.

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but are you sure you're not holding him back, either deliberately or accidentally?

"Dork" and "misfit" are the kind of words I remember hearing on the playground at the age of about eight, if not younger - I find it genuinely quite shocking that an 12yo has never heard those words before and doesn't know what they mean.

When you then add on the fact that he doesn't have a phone of any kind and doesn't seem to know how to interact with his peers, I would worry that he's too isolated to understand how pre-teens communicate and socialise.

DD is nerdy and alternative, but is popular and confident. The school activities she does are really nerdy, but she doesn't give a shit, there are really nice, interesting, funny kids just like your DS who go to them. It's key that she doesn't see the mean kids as in any way aspirational, she thinks they're arseholes.

I'd see this as a two-pronged attack, OP.

1. get him to join clubs in or out of school where there are a range of kids (Scouts, chess, choir, languages, Minecraft). The aim of this is to meet kids who are less of a 'danger' in terms of being mean, but who also can show him that non-sporty kids who are into less mainstream stuff can be popular and confident. Or that they don't care about either. Being part of this tribe is cool! This will help raise his self-esteem and devalue the currency of the horrible kids. It's no loss that those kids don't like him, he doesn't want to be friends with people like that anyway.

2. get him a phone, it doesn't have to be a lamb to the slaughter situation. DD is 13 and doesn't have any social media. She doesn't want it because she knows there can be bullying on there, and that SM isn't conducive to good mental health/body image. She uses WhatsApp (she has the confidence to leave groups where there is bitchiness and bullshit) and also plays Roblox and Minecraft but only with friends, no stranger interaction.
   I do understand though, that this is easier if your kid goes to a school that has a handle on bullying, which yours clearly does not. Bullying outside school and on phones is dealt with firmly by DD's school.

Sorry, having read that back it looks a bit braggy about my confident DD. Not meant like that at all, I'm trying to show that those types of groups are not comprised of miserable, timid kids. There is a whole range of confidence levels there and that he shouldn't feel if he joins, for example, the Scouts, that he has 'failed' and is with a bunch of losers. Quite the opposite, he could really flourish.

He needs a phone. It doesn't have to be expensive. There will be loads of deals coming up on the 3rd party mobile selling sites now that we can are approaching black Friday (best time to get a phone imo). If you have an old handset, there are some great sim only deals around. Lebarra are very reasonable.

This situation sounds dire and you need to sort it ASAP.

He really should change schools and put all the Ben/Chloe stuff behind him. If there are other good schools in the area I would seriously consider this and as the parent, you have the right to make this choice for him, whether he wants to or not. Present it to him as starting with a clean slate. If he doesn’t want to go, again you have the power to make this choice for him even without him agreeing. He’ll be thankful in the future that you did.

Another one here saying get him a phone. No hope of making new friends or socialising outside school without one, especially if he goes to a new school.

He needs to grow up a bit and you need to help him mature into a teenager. Does he game or do things the other kids his age are doing? Does he listen to music, watch particular tv shows or know what’s ‘in’ atm amongst his peers? Not saying he has to blindly follow or copy what’s ‘in’, but he should have some awareness of what’s going on amongst his peers and in the wider world. He’s not a baby any more.

There’s also an element of tough love that needs to be applied here. In some respects he just needs to suck it up and talk to people, even if he doesn’t want to or it makes him uncomfortable, otherwise he’ll never get anywhere in life. You need to reiterate this to him.

@TripleDaisySummer

It was an additional reason I'm keen on kids going to college for A-levels - I was stuck in a school sixth form and with school and parents who'd written a script that I was bad with people and it was all my fault - thing is I am ND but I have found friends and can navigate work places - I was never as bad as portrayed and my own DC very similar have had more positive experiences and DD1 just started uni seems to have socially fitted in well and I think that's because she had the support to develop and improve her social skills.

I fully agree. Same happened with me. I was horrendously bullied throughout secondary school (verbal but also physical assaults!) , where I started aged 11 as a straight A* student and failed all my exams aged 16! Parents didn't have a clue and trusted the school and it's teachers when they put the blame on me for being bullied. I just drifted into their sixth form to retake my GCEs but it was just more of the same really. I wished I'd had the courage to push back against parental and school pressure to stay on to the sixth form and insisted I went to college instead. But I'd been so wound down by the bullying I had no confidence in myself so just went with the flow and took the easiest option, the least line of resistance.

It was only when I started full time employment that things changed, very rapidly. Out of the toxic school environment, I found that I actually got on with other people, it turned out I was good at my job and learned quickly. I felt immense pride the first time my boss praised my work after a few days of starting. Even better when I found I enjoyed talking to the other staff, safe in the knowledge they weren't going to bully me, neither verbally nor physical assaults! I truly blossomed in a working environment, gained so much confidence I joined a couple of local clubs & societies and also started doing voluntary work.

Even now, 40 years later, I still have terrible social anxiety, low confidence, etc., all caused by that awful school and their awful teachers, but at least I can function as an adult, have friends, have interests, etc. All because I found it within myself to get a proper job, working with adults. Literally, those first few weeks of working changed my life in so many ways!

Even now, I can't face even driving past my old school. I get panic attacks and feel sick just at the sight of it. There were proposals to demolish it - one of my happiest days was reading of the proposals. Not happened yet, but here's hoping!

So many lives are impacted by bullying and the school/teacher's failure to address it.

I think he could benefit from speaking to a psychologist or a counsellor. Your GP might be able to refer him, although there might be a long waiting list. I do think this is extreme anxiety that is long lasting and having a profound negative impact on his life, so he really needs expert help with it . Paying privately might be the only option.

Honestly the school sounds appalling with a real bullying issue.

I know he says he doesn't want to move, but I would consider moving him anyway to a school with a strong pastoral care team.

Agree with getting him a phone. You can get a pretty cheap contracts. We always buy the handset out right - you can get a basic smartphone ( try Motorola or Chinese ones) for less than £100 or non smart phone for even less - and then get a SIM only contact for less than £5 a month. Or just pay as you go. No social media (Inc what's app) but being able to text will open new doors for him.

@Badbadbunny that sound awful.

I was lucky put head down and got good GCSE grades - less good A-level but was very focused one getting out an Uni looked like best bet. College was vetoed for me too - so just had another two years of feeling awful about myself - with teachers often adding to them - before then moving to Uni and dealing with very low confidence.

I've move away from area - rarely go back - but even now walking into a new group I often hear the your bad with people pop into my head - and have to literally stand there going though examples of why I'm not.

My kids have had problems but I think having support and getting past them has made stronger - I think leaving them to sort themselves they'd have been where I was and often still am.

DS y8 hasn't formed friendships however he is diagnosed autistic, and isn't socially motivated. He is happy though, and at some point will find some people that he connects with more. He is also in a supportive school that does run social interventions. Our biggest (albeit tiny) breakthrough is that another boy from the group also comes to our sporting activity and we are, very, very gradually building bits of conversation and the comfort zone is growing. We've made it to 3-way conversation and they seem to like the security of me (being a leader) being involved at this point.

OP's DS needs a cheap, functional smartphone. Not having one is the equivilent of dumping him into a foreign country without the language to communicate. My y6 will be getting one at Christmas when my handset becomes avaliable and tbh, he's behind. As much as I have principles about cyber-bullying and online content, there comes a practical point where they do become an essential tool to communicate as well as other things like handling public transport. They have to learn how to deal with them and what to do when things go wrong.

The bullies found him without a phone anyway. They can be blocked. He needs to understand that their opinion is worth less than a turd in a bag swinging from a tree. I know it's easier said than done to persuade some children of their self-worth, especially if their strengths are not the obvious popular, high-value attributes9.

So what if Scouting is full of "dorks" and "misfits", it's full of great, interesting characters. It's brilliant for semi-structured social skills. It's easier to talk to someone when you are doing something together. There's space to be yourself. Chance to discover what you love. There's good leader ratios so any bother gets dealt with, and there isn't often bother because the kids are there through choice.
DS2 has struggled socially since 2020, but he's confident in Scouting because of the structure, and it gives him room to showcase his loves from other activities gradually that is feeding back into other areas of life.

DS1's favourite activity is Warhammer. Admittedly not the cheapest hobby. I need to find a way for him to connect with appropriate Warhammer enthusiasts.

The school sounds awful and the primary school didn't deal with things effectively either. I would seriously consider the options for other schools with decent pastoral support. He has nothing to lose; he's not losing friendships. He also has no experience of being in a healthy, supportive school and his opinion about it is not fully informed. He would have to have a very good reason to want to stay and endure years of this culture.

Arranging playdates is not the answer, he needs the literal and social tools to communicate more effectively and find his confidence.

At the moment my DS 12yr old, yr 7, is playing Roblox and chatting to girl he knows from school who is playing the game with him (remotely). He had my old phone in yr 6 with a sim only contract. He had WhatsApp and got a few numbers of other children. You only need one to add you, they do get added by others. Nobody sends texts. He did tell me that someone he didn't know sent some unpleasant messages, he ignored them until the other child asked if he was going to reply, he ignored that too. They eventually admitted they were only sending messages to get a reaction, at which point DS sent the Call of Duty Mission Failed sound. Never heard from them again. Chatting while gaming is much easier than face 2 face, they start off just talking about the game and strategies, it's simple to ask about meet ups in real life like that too.

He isn’t shy, what you’re seeing is post-bullying trauma. Try and get him some counselling to talk it through and forget about school for now. Focus on after school clubs where he doesn’t know anyone & don’t ask him if be wants to go. Just go as a family. Try rock climbing - when you do it 2 or 3 times as a family you really begin to build a circle.

Both my kids do warhammer. Most of the Warhammer stores (used to be branded Games Workshop) do free painting and gaming sessions over the weekend for primary kids up to 16 years. You have to book but they’re free, usually a couple hours long. You take your own figures and paints along, but they all paint together and then have a quick battle with their figures. It’s fun and he’ll meet lots of kids who share his hobby.

@BogRollBOGOF

If you’re anywhere around south Lanarkshire/Glasgow areas then he can connect with my kids!

getting him a phone doesnt have to be expensive. Put a £1 sim into a second hand phone so he has a number. Then he can use it at home on wifi. He will be an outsider until he has one.

then work on his resilience, theres so many age appropriate resources/books out there. Have a look for any local teen mental health charities that offer free sessions

Hello, I completely understand how you are feeling and how your son is feeling. I was desperately shy as a child and would clam up and not answer people because I couldn't. My mouth wouldn't open. I went to drama classes and it was my joy. The one time each week that I could be free and be me.

I think as time goes by and your son has the same experiences over and over and feels left out, each of these is adding to his shyness and making it worse. Was he ever bullied or felt rejected as a younger child? Does he worry about failing at things so doesn't try incase it's a self fulfilling prophecy?
Do you have high standards for your son? If so, this could be a factor.

I work with children in this area and I know it's hard for them and for parents. You just want them to be happy. You should try some EFT. It's a very powerful tool for getting to the root of a worry and building up confidence.