Are We BU for not "supporting" our friend?

[algreaves1987]

This is a scenario that myself and my husband were both witness to and it's now causing a huge problem! FYI we have all known each other since our teenage years so a long time.

A(she)+B(he)= married couple (together 17 years married 10)
C(She)+D(he)= Long-term partners (15 years!)
Us! (Married 12 years together for 15)

We are all in our late 30s if that helps.

We were out at a nice restaurant. Since COVID we haven't seen that much of each other so we all agreed to get a nice hotel overnight and go out for dinner and drinks at the halfway point (the furthest between us is about 3 hours). So we meet at the hotel have a chat then go and get ready. Everything is fine at this point. We meet in the lobby and A seems a little icy with B but not that awful, in my opinion. Please note that in my opinion, B can quite often be very rude (lacks social skills - not from any issues - just doesn't care how other people feel at times).

We get a cab and go to the restaurant. We get seated and B's phone goes off and he goes outside to talk to his parents. A is instantly pissed off. She makes comments like "Here we go again" "Why can't they leave him alone for 5 minutes" etc. It's awkward but my husband does an amazing job of turning it around and we are all laughing within a few minutes.

B comes back and A literally just ignores him. He tries to talk to her, but she won't engage. At this point this is more than just the phone call I think, something is clearly going on but I really don't want to get involved and my husband and I have been looking forward to this for a few weeks. We get drinks and order food. B started talking to me and my husband asking about work. A is currently working part-time (she was a full-time social worker and just couldn't hack it - we all agree personally that she's been much happier since she dropped her hours in half and her caseload). If it's relevant here both my husband and I work full time and have the most income - significantly. If you add the rest of their incomes together it doesn't come to half what we make and for some reason, this seems to really interest B - in fact, we discuss it nearly every time we see him!

He asks us about how we divide chores etc in the house - we have a cleaner so that helps but previously we just split things between us depending on who wanted to do what. He then asks me directly whether I help my husband's parents. I haven't spoken to my MIL for nearly 3 years due to the issues I have with her behavior. I don't air our private issues in public - I know my husband is upset that there is no relationship between myself and his family but he also knows that his family caused this so doesn't blame me. I don't want to talk about it as I don't want to rub it in his face. He then hypothetically asked me "If my MIL had, had surgery and couldn't get around and needed help and was very elderly would I consider helping her in the evenings?" Again to not rub things in my husband's face I said "That would depend on my availability - work and family considering". He asked me if I would be open to it and I said sure. At this point, the dinner arrives. We are chomping away and commenting on how delicious the dinner is when suddenly A just gets up and walks out. We are all dumbfounded except B. He carries on eating his dinner telling us to do the same because she is just doing it for "attention". At this point, I feel like all the questioning me about my in-laws has something to do with it.

I tried to call A multiple times. I called the hotel (about 20 minutes after she left) to ask if she had arrived etc but they wouldn't advise me. We finished our meal, had another drink and I said to my husband that I wanted to go back to the hotel because I was no longer comfortable. He agreed. B was fuming, telling us that "she does this all the time to spoil things" and "she'll be back in about an hour completely fine and pretend that she had some emergency". I wasn't buying it. A had gotten upset over the years with comments made (and she had made quite a few herself to others) but she hadn't just walked out and disappeared.

When we got back to the hotel we called other friends and people we knew who knew her to see if anyone had heard from her because B said she wasn't in the hotel room and she'd taken her bag. Their car was still in the car park though. B just went to bed. He wasn't interested in looking. At this point, we felt like there wasn't much we could do but wait so we stayed up watched a crappy movie, and called a couple more times but ultimately went to sleep. The following morning still nothing. B went back home. We got a frantic call from him just over 3 hours later to tell us that she'd been home and most of her things were gone. At this point, my husband just asks him plainly what's going on. He explains that his mother became ill about 10 weeks ago and needed help. His father was very old-fashioned and not coping that well. In their house B is the higher earner but works 12-hour shifts so helping wasn't an option (in his eyes at least). A had put up with a lot from MIL - she'd been rude, deliberately excluded her from Christmas, and took away special moments from her (they have a daughter). To be honest I am really lucky with my husband, he fully supports me but I don't think B supported A at all whilst this was happening. A told us that he kept pushing and telling her that she wasn't making the effort. In the last 4 years, he stopped forcing the relationship - or so we thought.

This happened 2 weeks ago. She removed herself from our WhatsApp group. She sent me and our other friend C a message stating that she was upset that none of us girls " stood up" for her when it was clear that B was referring to her not helping and that she needed some space. She blocked both of us after that.
C feels like A has a point because it was obvious that B was talking about A not helping with his mother (at the time not that obvious to me, but hey ho). C and I also know that 4 years ago A's father died (her mother died nearly 20 years ago) and she was working full-time. B told her they couldn't afford for her to go part-time so she could spend more time with her dad. B said that they had Debts to pay still (turns out very little Debt and B was just saving money for "stuff"). A worked full time and went around there most evenings but cut down because B was complaining that he was working long hours and it wasn't fair he was coming home to having to do all the child care so that A could go around there. She felt like he didn't want her to help her dad out. He died and A was distraught. B did apologise for his behaviour repeatedly but things were really rocky between them for about 8 months. Honestly, I thought she was going to leave him. Their daughter was 3 at this point.

So B's mum came out of the hospital and B wants A to go around and nurse her back to health now she is part-time. According to B A laughed in his face and told him she doesn't care if she dies - he'd finally understand then. He said he'd only brought it up a few times over the last 10 weeks - I'm guessing that isn't true because I know B. When he wants something he's like a bulldog. B knows A doesn't want to be anywhere near him and he hasn't seen his daughter for 2 weeks now. He's expecting a divorce proceedings to start.

Both me, my husband, and C feel like B is the AH here but D thinks that A had her chance to leave him 4 years ago and that she is deliberately doing this out of spite. I don't feel it's the same because MIL is apparently nowhere as ill as her dad was (although her dad didn't engage with GPs etc so none of us really knew how ill he really was until he died).

Really sorry for the long post but basically me and C are getting hateful messages on Facebook from her other friends telling us what scumbags we are and how we don't deserve to live and now I am feeling pretty low about it all. I want to talk to A but I can't.

Are we BU for not supporting her during the dinner? I have told B that until I get A's side of the story I am not taking sides at all, my husband agrees. We know A can also be a little hot-headed (but to be honest we think B is way over the line here)

Yeah… because having family ‘secrets’ in a marriage that you’re not allowed to even mention is healthy and normal. Ok then. 👍🏼

I think I dislike all of you.

B's an arsehole.
A's a vengeful psycho.
You did nothing wrong.

Why is this whole thing anything to do with you? How have you ended up so embroiled in someone else’s marriage problems?! Block the pair of nutters and move on.

Honestly it all sounds too hard. I would be avoiding everyone from now on and they may wish to avoid you. Which is not to say everyone is too bad to burn but life is too short for such drama I think .

That was really rude of the pair of them to ruin the dinner and involve you in their fight

Block the lot of them. They tried to suck you into their drama unknowingly and it worked. They both sound manipulative. Block them and their trouble maker FB friends.

I don’t believe you didn’t realise that was aimed at A. It was obvious before you even told us the backstory. You’d have to have appalling interpersonal skills to not have picked up on that.

However after all you’ve written about both A and B it doesn’t sound like losing their friendship is too bad a deal.

How was it not obvious to you what he was going on about??? You can't be that daft!

A's friends are nuts.
B is an entitled asshole.
I feel bad for A. She must have felt so piled up on and probably triggered by her dad's death.
Why didn't you just st say no, you are not in contact with your mil? Why would that upset your DH when he supports you? You didn't have to explain why to B. You were a shitty friend and sides with an abusive asshole.

I agree with this^
If there were problems between A and B and A wanted your support she should have told you clearly about that.
I was reading your post and it was not obvious to me that B was making digs at A. I actually thought that your problems with MIL became known to him somehow and he ( being a twat) deliberately raised this and wanted to put you in awkward position.
That’s why I thought you mentioned money side to show that B was jealous about you being better off.

I also agree with @Lavender14 about sending screenshots to A and mentioning police.

Gosh what a palaver, way too much drama going on.

Its an odd post too, why so much irrelevant details? I mean there’s not drip feeding and there’s, well, this.
You’ve shared a lot of very identifying information about A&B.

Not sure why you feel the need to get both sides of the story before decided who to side it? Again more unnecessary drama.
Her other friends harassing you is bizarre.
Block them all and move on.

A sounds to me like she is the victim of domestic abuse by B. The emotional and psychological abuse is happening clear as day right in front of you as you’ve described it. I also suspect there is a whole lot more that has gone on between them behind closed doors that you have no idea about. Wouldn’t be at all surprised to find out there has also been physical abuse.

You definitely said the wrong thing when B asked you that question but I get that you were unexpectedly put on the spot and worrying about your own MIL situation at the time. Most people aren’t used to navigating abusive dynamics in their friend’s relationships. It’s not an unforgivable offence but I do think you owe A an apology. You should in hindsight just have said you didn’t want to be dragged into their marital disagreements.

A shouldn’t have blocked you (and her friends definitely shouldn’t be threatening you this way, although possibly they know a lot more about what’s been happening between B and A than you which is clouding their judgement, it’s still not acceptable and I hope A hasn’t been encouraging it). But clearly emotions are running high and she is super stressed (and leaving is the highest risk time in an abusive relationship). I think she needs your support.

It sounds like you and your husband think B is an asshole anyway (and he is). So I’m not sure what you’re gaining from sitting on the fence and “both sides”ing it, especially when B has been so clear in his emotional and psychological abuse right in front of you both.

In your shoes I would send a card with your apologies, saying that you’re worried about her and want to be supportive, and follow up with a visit if you don’t hear from her. If she still doesn’t want to know that’s fine, but I would try to make allowances for the difficult situation she is in. And ask her to have a word with her friends. And cut B loose!

I’ve been a victim of domestic abuse myself and it’s upsetting to see so many people writing A off as being “dramatic” when this was the night she decided to leave her marriage to the man she has had kids with. That IS a dramatic event. And unfortunately domestic abuse brings a lot of “drama” with it because the abuser deliberately creates a situation where if the victim tries to resist it results in drama, in order to drive anyone close to the victim further away as they decide they don’t want to be involved in the “drama”. The only way to avoid “drama” as a domestic abuse victim is to completely submit to the abuser and be under his total control. It’s a horrible trap. I wish people understood abusive relationship dynamics better.

Also, the friend who says she had her “chance” to leave 4 years ago I don’t understand. People can leave a relationship at any time. Again, abusive dynamics such as trauma bonding (plus the fact that these men wait until there are children involved to increase their control) can play into someone’s decision to leave and the average domestic abuse victim has experienced 50 episodes of abuse before getting help/finally leaving. I hate that this “friend” is saying she basically won’t be supportive because A should have left years ago.

https://safelives.org.uk/policy-evidence/about-domestic-abuse/how-long-do-people-live-domestic-abuse-and-when-do-they-get

Well it seems pretty clear that B is selfish and doesn’t think about A’s feelings at all. And B drags friends into ongoing disagreements by making up questions. What a shit husband. That does not make A blameless, however. A is justifiably pissed off with B, but a A has behaved like a brat by disappearing and ignoring/blocking calls and messages (particularly when she was missing) and getting other friends to send you nasty messages (A must have some weird friends if they are willing to send online abuse like this when they weren’t even there). Overall, I have far more sympathy with A than with B, but the fact that she’s got you blocked whilst her friends send idiotic shit to you seals it - neither A nor B are worth bothering with.

In summary, cut both A and B off, leave them to
their disagreements and divorce. No need to tell them, just don’t bother contacting them anymore.

So you earn so much more than your friends (completely irrelevant to the post but of course you had to get it in as a humble brag) but you don’t have the emotional intelligence to realise that B was talking about A at dinner?

B is out of order, you were not that great either. Don’t know enough about C and D to have an opinion about them

How was it NOT obvious that he was asking about helping your MIL due to something going on with his wife??!!

And YABU to have not just said "it's totally dependent on the relationship I have with my MIL so it's not a one size fits all". Because actually, you lied. YOU would never help your MIL so yes, you threw your friend under the bus!

Yes, you dropped A in it. (And your DH is a bit of a dick for seeing A as spiteful because she didn’t leave 4 years ago when she was emotionally wrecked from her dads death, under the thumb of an uncaring husband and with a 3 year old daughter.)

The way you describe the conversation it seems like it should have been obvious. Sometimes things hit you from left field, but any conversation where a man is suggesting the women in his life should be caring for his parents or otherwise picking up the drudgery should get at least a brief education on the role of sexism in setting expectations.

But here’s the main thing - you’re old friends, good enough to drop a bunch of money on a meal out and a hotel. But you didn’t know what A was going through. You knew things had been tough before Covid and that B had been awful to her (PP is right that from your description it sounds like emotional abuse), but at your first big meet up after, when it’s clear there’s tension, you aren’t asking her if she’s okay. You didn’t support her in the conversation with B, and it seems you haven’t really supported her at all.

Still, at least A has left now and has a chance at being a lot happier. Which she may not have done if you’d not been the foil that let her see she had to save herself.

She didn't give a flat out no because she should not be airing her business in public. She doesn't have to throw it in her husband's face in front of their friends so she didn't do anything wrong.

Good for A for leaving but to tell other dumb friends who are now posting abuse on Facebook is ridiculous. A should have sorted out her relationship without involving or dragging her friends into it.

I read shit like this and think - WTF am I doing on MN, is this really a good use of anyone’s time?

Answer: no, it is not.

This! 🙄

It sounds as if you’ve known for a long while that A is in an abusive relationship yet didn’t want to get involved. You chose not to support her and that will be why she shared nothing of her life with you.

As you and your husband don’t appear to have supported her at all, I’m not surprised she had such a strong reaction to your lack of support. She really needed you this time and once again, from her perspective, you didn’t come through.

The messages from her friends need to stop. But I don’t think you’ve actually been much of a friend to A.

Reading between the lines, I can totally see why she felt you have contributed to his abuse of her. She has been surrounded by people, who seem to value earning potential and their comfort over emotional intelligence.

It was pretty obvious he was using you as a stick to beat his wife. And I’m 99.9% sure he’s used how wonderful you are and your earning potential to compare her unfavourably, as part of his abuse of her. I’m therefore not surprised she now sees you as one of her abusers.

How many more sticks does she have to put up with before snapping?

I’d say the only good thing, which has come out of this is that she finally put enough value on herself to leave. And you as one of her long term friends in a strange way ‘helped’ her with that one.

My advice? Leave her alone. You didn’t help when she needed you most. She doesn’t need your help now. If you care at all about her, you will never speak to B again.

As for the messages from her friends, I would respond. ‘I realise I have been a terrible friend to A. I am very sorry. Please stop now.’ If they don’t, then you could contact the police.

But if you do contact the police, I would be very careful not to involve her. The abuse being aimed at you right now has just give you a tiny glimpse of what she has been suffering for years. She doesn’t need the police on her doorstep after everything she has been through.

B is an Arsehole, A is being unreasonable in not reining her friends in, but is justifiably cross with you. There is no way you didn't realise B was baiting A. If you wanted to stay out of it you would not have answered his questions. You would also have made an effort to properly apologise after the event. None of you come of out of this looking good.

B told her they couldn't afford for her to go part-time so she could spend more time with her dad. B said that they had Debts to pay still (turns out very little Debt and B was just saving money for "stuff"). A worked full time and went around there most evenings but cut down because B was complaining that he was working long hours and it wasn't fair he was coming home to having to do all the child care so that A could go around there. She felt like he didn't want her to help her dad out. He died and A was distraught.
This made me so angry and I thought Jesus poor a, b is the asshole to end all assholes, what an absolute shit. (And I never curse on here!) but then her saying she hoped the mil died … what a horrible situation, their marriage was ovsome time ago op. I think it’s crazy you didn’t know they were talking about each other bBut it doesn’t matter. It’s good you checked up on her

I would be stepping back and letting them sort it out themselves. How do people get friends with such drama in their lives? Honestly, I just couldn't be bothered with it, and all this "you should be supporting me" in something which is clearly nothing to do with you is just childish and dramatic.
eh, life happens? This isn’t a case of ‘who should have put out the bin?’, this is a huge life event!!

Alot of words to justify yourself. You absolutely knew what the guy was driving at.
Self fulfiling prophecy. You can only make a decision when you speak to A. But A won't speak to you. What hand wringing agony for you. Neat and tidy way to absolve yourself from being complicit in A's break down.

I wonder if A is on MN? Would like to hear the other side.

This, A and B are absolutely ridiculous in their different ways.
Do they often need to be the centre of attention and have the group be involved in their tumultuous relationship?
Is their a reason they'd pick am expensive weekend away for everyone to kick off?
Both are dicks, agree you shouldn't be forced to share family issues to make someone else feel better.
If she is enjoying this teenage behaviour, follow her lead and 'block her back'.
Agree to screenshot her abusive friends posts and I extremely hope they are not her colleagues working with anyone vulnerable. Although I'd be interested to see what she's actually told them.
I'm too old and tired to have to engage in this drama llama behaviour!