Are We BU for not "supporting" our friend?

[algreaves1987]

This is a scenario that myself and my husband were both witness to and it's now causing a huge problem! FYI we have all known each other since our teenage years so a long time.

A(she)+B(he)= married couple (together 17 years married 10)
C(She)+D(he)= Long-term partners (15 years!)
Us! (Married 12 years together for 15)

We are all in our late 30s if that helps.

We were out at a nice restaurant. Since COVID we haven't seen that much of each other so we all agreed to get a nice hotel overnight and go out for dinner and drinks at the halfway point (the furthest between us is about 3 hours). So we meet at the hotel have a chat then go and get ready. Everything is fine at this point. We meet in the lobby and A seems a little icy with B but not that awful, in my opinion. Please note that in my opinion, B can quite often be very rude (lacks social skills - not from any issues - just doesn't care how other people feel at times).

We get a cab and go to the restaurant. We get seated and B's phone goes off and he goes outside to talk to his parents. A is instantly pissed off. She makes comments like "Here we go again" "Why can't they leave him alone for 5 minutes" etc. It's awkward but my husband does an amazing job of turning it around and we are all laughing within a few minutes.

B comes back and A literally just ignores him. He tries to talk to her, but she won't engage. At this point this is more than just the phone call I think, something is clearly going on but I really don't want to get involved and my husband and I have been looking forward to this for a few weeks. We get drinks and order food. B started talking to me and my husband asking about work. A is currently working part-time (she was a full-time social worker and just couldn't hack it - we all agree personally that she's been much happier since she dropped her hours in half and her caseload). If it's relevant here both my husband and I work full time and have the most income - significantly. If you add the rest of their incomes together it doesn't come to half what we make and for some reason, this seems to really interest B - in fact, we discuss it nearly every time we see him!

He asks us about how we divide chores etc in the house - we have a cleaner so that helps but previously we just split things between us depending on who wanted to do what. He then asks me directly whether I help my husband's parents. I haven't spoken to my MIL for nearly 3 years due to the issues I have with her behavior. I don't air our private issues in public - I know my husband is upset that there is no relationship between myself and his family but he also knows that his family caused this so doesn't blame me. I don't want to talk about it as I don't want to rub it in his face. He then hypothetically asked me "If my MIL had, had surgery and couldn't get around and needed help and was very elderly would I consider helping her in the evenings?" Again to not rub things in my husband's face I said "That would depend on my availability - work and family considering". He asked me if I would be open to it and I said sure. At this point, the dinner arrives. We are chomping away and commenting on how delicious the dinner is when suddenly A just gets up and walks out. We are all dumbfounded except B. He carries on eating his dinner telling us to do the same because she is just doing it for "attention". At this point, I feel like all the questioning me about my in-laws has something to do with it.

I tried to call A multiple times. I called the hotel (about 20 minutes after she left) to ask if she had arrived etc but they wouldn't advise me. We finished our meal, had another drink and I said to my husband that I wanted to go back to the hotel because I was no longer comfortable. He agreed. B was fuming, telling us that "she does this all the time to spoil things" and "she'll be back in about an hour completely fine and pretend that she had some emergency". I wasn't buying it. A had gotten upset over the years with comments made (and she had made quite a few herself to others) but she hadn't just walked out and disappeared.

When we got back to the hotel we called other friends and people we knew who knew her to see if anyone had heard from her because B said she wasn't in the hotel room and she'd taken her bag. Their car was still in the car park though. B just went to bed. He wasn't interested in looking. At this point, we felt like there wasn't much we could do but wait so we stayed up watched a crappy movie, and called a couple more times but ultimately went to sleep. The following morning still nothing. B went back home. We got a frantic call from him just over 3 hours later to tell us that she'd been home and most of her things were gone. At this point, my husband just asks him plainly what's going on. He explains that his mother became ill about 10 weeks ago and needed help. His father was very old-fashioned and not coping that well. In their house B is the higher earner but works 12-hour shifts so helping wasn't an option (in his eyes at least). A had put up with a lot from MIL - she'd been rude, deliberately excluded her from Christmas, and took away special moments from her (they have a daughter). To be honest I am really lucky with my husband, he fully supports me but I don't think B supported A at all whilst this was happening. A told us that he kept pushing and telling her that she wasn't making the effort. In the last 4 years, he stopped forcing the relationship - or so we thought.

This happened 2 weeks ago. She removed herself from our WhatsApp group. She sent me and our other friend C a message stating that she was upset that none of us girls " stood up" for her when it was clear that B was referring to her not helping and that she needed some space. She blocked both of us after that.
C feels like A has a point because it was obvious that B was talking about A not helping with his mother (at the time not that obvious to me, but hey ho). C and I also know that 4 years ago A's father died (her mother died nearly 20 years ago) and she was working full-time. B told her they couldn't afford for her to go part-time so she could spend more time with her dad. B said that they had Debts to pay still (turns out very little Debt and B was just saving money for "stuff"). A worked full time and went around there most evenings but cut down because B was complaining that he was working long hours and it wasn't fair he was coming home to having to do all the child care so that A could go around there. She felt like he didn't want her to help her dad out. He died and A was distraught. B did apologise for his behaviour repeatedly but things were really rocky between them for about 8 months. Honestly, I thought she was going to leave him. Their daughter was 3 at this point.

So B's mum came out of the hospital and B wants A to go around and nurse her back to health now she is part-time. According to B A laughed in his face and told him she doesn't care if she dies - he'd finally understand then. He said he'd only brought it up a few times over the last 10 weeks - I'm guessing that isn't true because I know B. When he wants something he's like a bulldog. B knows A doesn't want to be anywhere near him and he hasn't seen his daughter for 2 weeks now. He's expecting a divorce proceedings to start.

Both me, my husband, and C feel like B is the AH here but D thinks that A had her chance to leave him 4 years ago and that she is deliberately doing this out of spite. I don't feel it's the same because MIL is apparently nowhere as ill as her dad was (although her dad didn't engage with GPs etc so none of us really knew how ill he really was until he died).

Really sorry for the long post but basically me and C are getting hateful messages on Facebook from her other friends telling us what scumbags we are and how we don't deserve to live and now I am feeling pretty low about it all. I want to talk to A but I can't.

Are we BU for not supporting her during the dinner? I have told B that until I get A's side of the story I am not taking sides at all, my husband agrees. We know A can also be a little hot-headed (but to be honest we think B is way over the line here)

I would not be in the least bit surprised. Probably accompanied with a rambling Facebook post about how they’ve had their problems, but they’re sticking together and ignoring the “haters”; how no one else could understand the other the way they do, don’t judge someone until you’ve walked a mile in their shoes… all that flannel.

Surely it would've been very clear that B was making a dig at A?

Good god ! It all sounds very immature and incredibly selfish of A&B to inflict their marital problems on you
I’d be giving them both a wide berth from now on !

Malarandras · 03/11/2023 23:43

I only read all this because I was brushing my teeth and have a 2 minute timer on.

Anyway, all I want to say is that it was crystal clear to me what the husband was doing so it should have been obvious to you. And it’s too late now for you to support the wife. Just extricate yourself from the situation now and move on. What else can you do?
This

It sounds to me that B is a total A-hole. Having said that it’s hard to know what’s going on for people unless they actually tell you. It doesn’t sound like A has been confiding in you and now she is treating you like shit. There is no way I would be bothering with either of them again and I certainly wouldn’t be tolerating bullying on Facebook, I would report and block them. It sounds like they need to grow up and sort their own shit out to be honest. I can’t be dealing with that kind of crap and would be staying well away.

They all sound absolutely awful, and very selfish.

Sounds like you were sprung into a really uncomfortable position. I would remove myself from both A and B, and any hangers on. Next time go out just you and your DH (or you and Friend C)!

I personally would be trying to find A, to give her some support. From everything you said, to me it was blatantly obvious that B was alluding to his situation with A. What he did to her, was incredibly cruel, and then to expect her to help his nasty mum is the epitome of hypocrisy.

Ugh, hurt people hurt people, eh?

B is a nuclear level [insert swearword] and A is well within her rights to leave when all of you, her included, were trying to have a nice night out with friends and he decided to air not just their laundry but a separation level subject. If it wasn't clear to him that's what he was doing by trying to make his partner housemaid to his Mum, it's pretty clear to me, a stranger and that's without the added context of her losing her own parents. This couple sound like they have been begging the world for an excuse to separate for years, now they've got one please do them and the rest of humanity a favour and never say something like 'oh, maybe you can work it out', no, they really, really can't. They are very much better off apart.

A and her FB friends are drama llama level [insert swearword] for escalating this instead of putting that energy into divorce proceedings. Literally, WHO has the energy?? Ditto not letting her ex see the kid. Again, not your circus, not your monkeys but that is pretty telling behaviour around how they like to weaponise their hurt towards one another, be glad you're just a grown adult in the cross hairs and not a child.

You don't owe ANYONE an apology. Yes, if you had a crystal ball and the inclination to use it to plan evenings out with friends you might have avoided this but it was coming one way or another, I bet A is glad to have this excuse whatever she claims. Honestly, just be glad that you won't be forced to use the little time you have away from your high-paid jobs (not entirely clear of the relevance, but 'You go, Glen Coco!') to be around these people any longer.

Both A and B are complete arseholes who dragged you into their melodramatic bullshit and tried to get you to take sides. Get rid of the pair of them. They're absolutely awful people. I don't actually care who is right or wrong in their argument about looking after parents or whatever; they're both toxic individuals to drag their mates into an argument on a night out and then try and get you to take sides.

And A's other friends are sending you nasty messages on Facebook? Sorry, but what the actual fuck? Who ARE these people? They're all nuts.

It’s crystal clear to you because you have hindsight, which Op did not at the time.

For OP at the time, she was just trying to answer questions about a sensitive subject without upsetting her husband.

How was she supposed to know B was not asking in good faith?

This is It in a nutshell. That’s why I wonder whether the OP’s husband’s “She could have left him four years ago” comment was just badly phrased (either by him, or by the OP in the retelling). Isn’t “She’s had four years to leave him” rather more likely? And actually a very valid point?

Maybe I’m horribly cynical. Maybe the moment A couldn’t take any more was genuinely and purely coincidentally right in the middle of an expensive meal on a long-planned weekend away with all their friends, when her departure would cause the biggest, most public ructions possible. Maybe it could have just as easily happened on a quiet Tuesday evening. But ask yourself which scenario is most compatible with someone who publicly berates her friends for lack of support, goes on a blocking spree and then talks other friends into sending abusive follow-ups.

Couldn't do with this sort of drama, if they want you to be friends, fine, otherwise block them or come off sm for a while.

Any update, OP?

You did the right thing checking up that A was ok. If she chose not to get back in contact, that’s on her.

its A & B’s argument and others should not be drawn into it.

step away. B has to sort his shite out with A however that turns out.

A’s other friends are dicks and also should not be buying into their argument or what happened at the dinner. A sounds like she is seeking attention, best stay away from the lot of them.

A's probably ignoring 0p as she's back with B and blaming others in the group for the argument!!

Must admit, this is pretty much what I thought, but hopefully you haven't inadvertently sided with the bully previously - or have you?

I am also surprised you couldn't see that B was angling at something, even if you didn't know the details - you have an idea what he is like.

Quite possibly right now, A is feeling very vulnerable and distressed - you don't just walk away like that as she did.

Perhaps she hoped you of all people would support her - after all, you know about difficult MILs, don't you (but you're lucky, you have a supportive husband)? But your answer was strange to say the least, and yes, could be interpreted as sticking the knife in A to side with B. If you still value her friendship, why not get in touch and apologise for being insensitive.

If A's friends are being so abusive, block them.

Otherwise, looks like friendship with the couple is over, and yes, hopefully you'll be a bit more clued up in social situations in future. Life isn't so perfect and rosy for everyone, you know.

She might be better off finding a group of supportive friends whilst she gets over a relationship with an appalling DH.

Sounds like D was the only sensible one at the dinner, looks like he kept his gob shut

Agree. There was a fair bit of smug, unnecessary detail. Maybe OP just loves the fact that B has such admiration for OP and husband’s income.

Staggering that, knowing so much detail of what B was like, A’ loss of father and the past for A, OP couldn’t read the situation.

Hope A finds real friends and support. Friends with emotional security who are not totally and utterly smug and shallow.

How dismissive some posters are of A.

She lost her mother 20 years ago.
Loosing her father would have brought up lots of painful feelings.

What scum her husband was to force her unnecessarily to work full-time, by lying to her, when she only wanted to support her dying father.

To complain about caring for his own child while his wife spent the only time she could with her dying father.

God help her.

B is utter and complete scum.

The OP clearly knows the absolute ins and outs of their toxic relationship and what scum B has been.

She still felt is best to play obtuse, lie and bask in B's admiration for her income.🙄

I hope A divorces B and continues to be supported by real friends.

Quite possibly right now, A is feeling very vulnerable and distressed - you don't just walk away like that as she did.

Not unless you want to cause the maximum drama possible.

The only way the Facebook fakes know about it is because A has told them. She is not your friend. Block

I just don't believe you didn't know he was talking about her. And your comments about how she "can't hack it" in full time work make clear you feel judgmental of her too.

It's amazing you've become such a high earner while apparently utterly unable to see through a really obvious loaded question.

You could have easily replied to Bs question of whether you would help your in laws with "in a general sense, it would totally depend on the relationship I have with them." Or you could have been a good friend and said "A shouldn't have to help your parents, B".

It seems like you were enjoying being flattered by B for what you see as your ability to do it all. Poor A. No wonder she felt utterly betrayed.

Hey everyone,

It's been a while and had some news. Thanks to everyone whose given really good advice here, we did read all the comments (even the harsh ones!).

My husband and I decided to cut contact with B completely permanently. He came round to ours a few times and things got heated but my husband made it clear so we haven't heard/seen him since December. C+D have lowered contact but not cut completely, they were concerned for him but I told C I'm not interested so they haven't brought him up.

I contacted Facebook about the hateful messages and the police mid December as someone threatened to r* and kill me. Facebook removed the profile but I deleted the account because I just don't feel safe anymore.

A turned up at my house in January. She said she didn't know they were sending me death threats and their friends and randoms had joined but I kept printouts if most of it just in case but not everything). She explained that she didn't feel supported but that she wasn't thinking clearly. After a bit of time she'd remembered all the times I'd offered her a room, offered to help pay for a flat when she was desperately low but she'd refused. I looked after their daughter at extremely short notice when things were really bad arguments wise.id lent her money, which he paid back very slowly but I didn't mind that considering,. She said she'd overreacted but that I should have known. I explained to her that she didn't tell me everything that was going on in their relationship and that I did not realise and looking back I should have. So I apologised for that.

she started divorce proceedings and has been in touch with B and child support and visiting. He's going for full custody apparently and taking it out that she's unstable. I told her she should do what's best for her and her daughter and didn't comment beyond because was upset (not crying!) and don't want to be dragged back into it.

I also told her that this changes nothing. DH and I don't need this in our lives - things were hell until I removed Facebook and that I still have nightmares and get scared when I see a stranger approaching me in a weird way, even though 99% of people just walk past. I'm in therapy and that she deliberately told them a pack of lies about how unsupportive we were over the years when that was the case and it's caused this.

She wants another chance and she's been through a lot. DH told me to think on it, don't make decisions out of anger and he's right I was upset at the time. It's been a month and she's called at my house several times - she's speaking to C+D and they are cautious and have made it clear low contact - C's pregnant (7 weeks) and she still has Facebook and still getting it but that's for her to sort. I still don't feel comfortable with her. I told her what would she have done if I'd have been r and she just sobbed and kept apologising. DH mostly deals with her calling. He's more level headed but he's told me whatever I decide he'll support 100%. He did say in her defense she wasn't telling them to do that to me and that whilst lying wasn't right she didn't sanction this.

Some of you indicated I was a crappy friend, and in that moment yes I was but that doesn't erase years of being a good friend and I didn't deserve this.

I was asked how we'd got on, so there it is. Thank you to everyone for giving us some perspective and advice.

I'd stay away - would not be interested in the drama.

B was completely in the wrong in trying to score points and draw you into his argument with his wife. However they were both out of line to come to the evening if they could not behave well.

I would be annoyed at the whole lot of them. I think you probably should have twigged the point of his question and if you had any suspicion should have asked him what he was getting at. Regardless A and B should not be drawing you into this drama.