To think that most women don't even have high body counts?

[etchedowl]

I read this article in the guardian this morning https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/03/when-andrew-tate-and-the-online-manboys-obsess-over-a-bodycount-girls-you-know-what-to-do which is a reaction to the current misogynistic male obsession with a woman's body count i.e. how many men she has slept with. Firstly I agree with the article that it is a totally misogynistic trope and not to be tolerated. But Secondly I wonder to myself, who are all these women with large "body counts"?

Most women I know like myself (now in my early 30's) would have dated and had boyfriend in their teens which mostly they did not have sex with then maybe a boyfriend or two they did sleep with before finally meeting the man they are now married to at some point during university or early 20's.

Most women I know were not out clubbing every week, meeting and sleeping with different men every week or month as the paranoid fantasies of these incel men say but were more likely to be tucked up at home with their long term boyfriends and husbands having a nice meal and watching box sets or even playing scrabble. Even the single women I still know will mostly socialise together at home with going out being the odd time rather than it being a bit never ending smorgasbord of hot men and sex!

Do any of these men actually know any women or do they just believe the absolute drivel they read online by shady men who are ultimately trying to sell them a product by capitalising their insecurity and paranoia?

Please note if there are women out their having a whale of a time having tons of sex then more power to them absolutely no judgement from me. The point of my post it that it seems in no way to me the norm for most women.

Under patriarchy, male promiscuity is lauded whilst female promiscuity is condemned. Hence, the men lie to elevate their number of sex partners and women lie to lower theirs. Split the difference, it's average four across both sexes.

I mean, if it ain’t your vagina, it ain’t your business to worry about what’s going in it, from whom and how often.

And it definitely isn’t Andrew Tate’s business either.

Yep, and how insidious it is. On this very website, in any discussion of male infidelity, not only will the OW shoulder 99% of the blame even if she wasn't married and he was, there will be plenty of posts crowing over how "he'll just cheat on her too so she'll get what she deserves". So even when a man is cheating by sleeping with a woman, her punishment is heartbreak and he just gets more cheating sex...and this is justice.

Very good point.

It's difficult to know whether people are being truthful when talking about "bodycounts"

It is also a really weird topic to talk about.

I've never discussed this with my friends.

I've never asked my husband how many women he slept with. He's never asked me how many men I slept with.

This

Your social circle sounds rather old-fashioned. Very in fact.

Tate and his ilk can go fuck themselves. Women are not fundamentally changed by proximity to a penis, no matter how important these sad men think these appendages are.

There were a couple of years of my life when I genuinely loved nothing more than going clubbing multiple nights a week, nights which often finished with me hooking up with a hot guy. It was lots of fun.

Then over the next fifteen years I had two serious relationships totalling eight years along with multiple short term ones, dating, ONS, throw in a FWB and that results in an absolutely massive body count by the time I met my now DH. His is I believe relatively low as he married his first girlfriend then enjoyed himself for a year or two before meeting me.

People always say promiscuity is a red flag but I'm extremely respectful, loyal and committed and totally value what we have. I adore our family unit.

My number is high even among my own friends I'd imagine but absolutely nobody I know has led a life similar to what you're describing. I am fascinated and can't visualise it at all.

Also, body count is a horrible term. It sounds rapey/murdery.

Women are not fundamentally changed by proximity to a penis, no matter how important these sad men think these appendages are.

This needs repeating. Judging women for how much sex we have is a sign of how much men think of their cocks as well as how little they think of us.

I was married to a wonderful man who was from a previous era. He was kind, respectful, masculine and a gentleman. After he passed away, I have not found anyone else even close.

I think men are really disgusting creatures and there are the exception, but they are often just that, the exception.

What an odd post and assumption that most women are like you and your friends
It's rather narrow minded and slightly arrogant

and yet you still manage to sound very sheltered, because you assume your experience of settling down with a boy you met in your teens and spending Saturday nights in your 20s sitting in playing Scrabble with said boyfriend is most women's norm.

I think OP's opinion is misinformed but tbqh is rather stay at home with a boyfriend than go out, shag an arsehole and be ghosted the next day.

I've done a bit of the partying and causal sex stuff and I really don't get why it's seen as some rite of passage? The shags could be thrilling if you fancied them but were generally meh or downright awful. How is that better than having a day out and a nice evening in?

Good lord OP - I don't know a single woman who has only had '2 or 3' sexual partners. I'm nearly 60 and have been divorced for almost 20 years - in that time I've probably slept with about 10 men (sounds a lot, but we are talking about a period of 'being single' over 20 years...so it's not that many is it?

Prior to this, I was married twice (6 years and 4 years...clearly marriage didn't suit me 🤦‍♀️) and before and after each marriage I reckon I've slept with another 10.

So in a 44 year period (my first time was aged 17) that's around 22 men. That averages out at 1 every two years (clearly that's not what it means...but purely looking at the data that's what it would average to).

Your view is bonkers!

I'm not saying it's better, it might be it might not be. Hookups can be nice guys and long term boyfriends can be arseholes, and vice versa. People should do as they like but just not assume that their experience is the universal experience.

It doesn't come across that way because you describe being settled, not clubbing and having sex casually as 'sheltered' but ok.

They are different experiences and there's not a reason to put down one or the other.

I think the sheltered comments are not at all to do with someone's or OPs sexual history but just purely on the basis of assuming everyone behaves like your social circle does.

Someone upthread said "birds of a feather" and I think it's very apt here

I guess, but I'm not sure anyone would be calling a woman with a body count of 40 sheltered for believing everyone else was like her-

Just saying😂

No.

I'm describing the OP's difficulty with understanding that her experience (settling down with teenage boyfriend and staying in at the weekends as a 20 something) isn't the common experience comes across as sheltered. Most people who have lived in and around different types of people wouldn't be surprised that many women enjoy casual sex.

But her circle are apparently all the same as her.

Sheltered.

HTH

I think you’re being described as having a sheltered life because you believe these stats, which are clearly a load of guff. I, too, have lived in a few different countries. Living abroad doesn’t make someone necessarily worldly wise. It depends where you live and if you’re integrated in the local community.

Age 15/16, I was going out drinking, usually around 6 pints of bitter on a Friday and Saturday night, and could down a pint in one. I was also pretty street smart having attended a rough secondary.

Here is what I’d consider to be a more realistic survey. https://www.insider.com/number-of-people-americns-say-theyve-had-sex-with-2018-8 19 for women, 26 for men.

I am Gen X and according to stats, we are the most promiscuous generation. Hardly surprising as we had to meet face to face and therefore more likely to have sex. There was no digital communication. Teen pregnancy has halved since the 1990s.

Sorry, but yes I would 🫣.

When you. Real it down to 2 men a year may not sound large in the grand scheme of things but a new men ever 3-6 months is a lot in MY VIEW. (For MY LIFE).

I truly don’t judge you or anything nor anyone else.
(Cox WTF am I to judge anyone??)
I realistically don’t think in those terms unless I’m asked that question or I think about it.
(Same logic of when some people get pregnant and say, OMG now my nan knows I’m having sex. I wouldn’t connect sex to baby in an everyday situation despite knowing you usually can’t have one without the other).

I accept it might not be the norm but it isn't old fashioned 🙄

Who's keeping count? I don't know my exact number. I know it's around 10 but most of them were 15+ years ago and the details are hazy

I was pretty integrated and still visit my friends there often. I was also drinking at 15 / 16, going camping most weekends with a big group of friends ages 13 to late 20's, obviously some of the older people were sleeping with their long term partners but the younger one's were not. I went to a rough secondary and am no fool although I wouldn't suggest I was especially street wise or hardened by the world in any way.

I had a boyfriend from age 16-19 and then got together with DH when I was 20, who I’ve been with ever since. Nonetheless, my number is about 15, the majority of which obviously were in a one year period. It’s probably just as well I met my H when I did as had I been single into my twenties, I’d likely have racked up a ridiculous number. It wasn’t a good thing in my case because I was seriously lacking in self-esteem and relied on male attention for self worth. I went to bed with men because I wanted them to like me.

Having said that, one or two of those experiences were fantastic and I still remember them fondly.

Most of my friends didn’t settle down as young as I did and most had a whale of a time in their twenties and early thirties. Some of their ‘body counts’ are pretty high. Good for them- they enjoyed themselves and, unlike me, were doing it for the ‘right’ reasons- ie they wanted some sex with someone they were attracted to as opposed to trying to boost their self worth which was my problem.

It sounds as if you were a lot more protected as a teen than in my day. I’m 52. We were down the pub drinking, two girls walking into town down dark alleyways in dodgy areas and over the canal bridge to one of the roughest pubs in town. So not a group of friends. I started going age 14 and by 15 it was weekly. We definitely caught the eye of grown men; boys our age weren’t getting served.

Another friend was heavily pregnant and married when she’d not long been 16. Her Husband was about 35. I remember discussing with another friend that he was too old. We both agreed that anyone over 30 was too old.

At 14, another friend and I were dating RAF squaddies. We met them down the pub closest to the RAF camp and were specifically looking for squaddies… not that we understood the implications of that choice. One day we met up with them and they smuggled us into a big room on the camp, like a hall or something. Idk how many couples were there as it was pitch black, I’d estimate around 10 couples. At least one couple was having sex. The man my friend was going out with persuaded her to have sex with him by telling her that he could hear me having sex. Mine did not persuade me. They both dumped us after that. My poor friend.