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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

If you saw this parent on a train?

191 replies

rocknrollaa · 31/10/2023 18:12

On the train today, I saw a mother with 3 kids was really losing her temper with them. The kids were just being kids - talking quite loudly, getting out of their seats sometimes - nothing bad, just a bit excitable.

But mum was really telling them off - for the whole journey of about half an hour, all you could hear from her were loud angry commands to sit down, shut up, threats that they are not going to go trick or treating, etc. She didn't say a single thing to them that wasn't a command or telling them off, and her voice was loud and angry.

At one point the eldest, probably about 8/9, got very upset with her mum who told her she couldn't go trick or treating.

The child was crying, she said ' I was just starting to feel happy again and then you told me off again'. Mum replied loudly 'Stop being naughty then. Why the bloody hell are you only happy when you're bad?! I SWEAR DOWN you're not going trick or treating tonight', then the kid started crying.

We didn't intervene but we felt really sorry for these kids. It was serious shouting and they really weren't misbehaving much at all.

It got me thinking what I would do if I actually saw her hit one of the kids (because I felt like she was on the verge of it, but didn't).

Would you intervene? If so how?

YABU - No I wouldn't intervene - it's her business how she parents her kids.
YANBU - Yes I would intervene (please comment what you'd do)

OP posts:
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Montaguez · 31/10/2023 21:55

I can lose my temper with DD on a bad day when she just won't do as she's told. Put X down, but she keeps trying to pick it up again or touch it, sit down, but she's only half sitting down and keeps getting back up, stand still but she keeps moving, focus but she keeps doing random distracting things. Can't imagine with more than one who egg each other on. Maybe mum was struggling today, you don't know how bad they behaved before the train journey, or what's going on privately that maybe means mum is more stressed than usual.

LadyThatLaunches · 31/10/2023 21:57

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Screamingabdabz · 31/10/2023 22:03

Challengemonica · 31/10/2023 21:53

I expect the last journey she was on some arsehole told her to control the kids. Can't win. She'll be a nervous wreck soon, then she'll be told she can't cope.

Oh give over. This mother was being continually vile and abusive to her kids. There is no excuse. She should be ashamed.

PonkyPonky · 31/10/2023 22:06

I know a mum like this. Everyone in the village refers to her as ‘shouty mum’. She is awful to her children, I have never once heard her say something nice to them. DS used to have the same swim lesson time slot as one of her kids and I had to sit through half an hour of her barking at the child not in the pool, every single week. It’s so so sad to witness but there’s really not anything you can do. It wouldn’t meet any thresholds for any kind of intervention. It’s just so shit for the kids. I don’t know why everyone on this thread is defending being horrible to children. Just be nice to your kids, it’s really not that hard.

Challengemonica · 31/10/2023 22:15

DdraigGoch not sure you meant me. I didn't say anything about pride. There are charities out there who persistently encourage grassing, tale telling, reporting - I'm not sure the terminology is important here - the point is, it creates an atmosphere of mistrust. My 'appalling attitude' is neighbours supporting each other - a cup of tea and a friendly chat goes a long way. As we've seen in many cases recently, this sort of reporting has done nothing to help children who are being abused, and people grassing up harassed mums on trains take precious resources away from those who need it. Those working in social services will tell you the bar for a 'good enough' parent is pretty low.

As per your post, the point of much of this reporting is a sense of superiority which is often misplaced - but you'd know that if you cared to offer a helping hand. If you look a bit deeper, this is what many find distasteful.

pumpkinpie25 · 31/10/2023 22:16

She was probably knackered, pissed off, over stimulated and trying to control 3 loud and unruly kids.

I think you sound really judgemental. She wasn't hitting them so you have no business getting involved and it's sad that you feel the need to start a thread condemning her.

We've all snapped and snarled at our kids before. I did it in the middle of the town centre once and I remember some busy body woman tutting and shaking her head at me too. She had no idea what id put up with up until that point. We're all only human and now and then we lose our shit.

Busephalus · 31/10/2023 22:18

God she sounds awful

MidnightOnceMore · 31/10/2023 22:20

I know what you mean about tone @rocknrollaa - I witnessed the same on a bus one day. It was quite a long journey, in the end I went and sat near the mum and child and talked to them so she left him alone for half an hour til I got off.

It wasn't reportable but it was sad to see.

There's no bloody help these days, money is tighter than ever, it's not easy for anyone.

ChampagneLassie · 31/10/2023 22:20

I’d like to think I would say something, I’d have asked her how she’s doing and try to empathise. Maybe she is struggling and needs a bit of support.

Myrestingwitchface · 31/10/2023 22:21

Rantsandpants · 31/10/2023 18:51

I’m amazed at the hard time you are getting here OP. She sounds emotionally abusive. A bully. It doesn’t matter how bad children behave (and it sounds like these kids were perfectly well behaved), they don’t deserve constant shouting. I don’t think intervention would have helped the situation as she would have likely turned on you or taken it out on the kids later.

Agree with all of this.

ChiefWiggumsBoy · 31/10/2023 22:23

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Are they? Have you got any stats to back that up coz google isn't giving me anything about perpetrators just victims.

Challengemonica · 31/10/2023 22:23

Screamingabdabz - you weren't there, not was I so we really don't know. But interesting you say she should be 'ashamed' that's a very strong word. A very long history of women who should be ashamed and shaming women of course is what this often comes down to. What if we didn't shame? What if we offered a hand of friendship? I'd better shut up, me and my appalling attitude again. Best go off and be ashamed of myself, quietly.

PS if the woman is committing a crime or endangering the children, OP should call the police. She chose to come on Mumsnet to chastise another mother who can't defend herself. You can bet I'm judging.

ChiefWiggumsBoy · 31/10/2023 22:25

You know what? I get really ticked off with these faux-I-was-so-upset-with-this-mother post.

You didn't say anything, you didn't care enough about either the mother or the children to do so in the moment. If you did, maybe the mum would have burst into tears. I know I've been short with my own kids when I'm barely holding it together - and like a sixth sense that's when their behaviour is at its worst. Maybe she would have jumped up and shouted at you, let's be real here, you didn't trust your judgement enough that this chavvy mum wouldn't clock you one, you weren't prepared to risk insult or injury to 'save' those children. Even though you were with your husband.

Of course, maybe she is abusive. There's always that possibility. So now you've done nothing to challenge an abusive mother either. I'm really not sure what you want from here other than a pat on the back for identifying an upset mum and her upset children.

MidnightOnceMore · 31/10/2023 22:25

Girlswillbetwirls · 31/10/2023 21:52

Precisely. I used to work in social services and in schools and I’m aghast at the majority of these responses. There’s a difference between a parent having an outburst and snapping at bad or loud behaviour, and a parent being emotionally abusive by relentlessly picking at their children in public who are merely existing.

The latter destroys self esteem and it’s not about being allowed to “parent” , being a parent isn’t a green card to treat your children however you want. You and your children exist in society that we share together and best believe your treatment of them will impact the rest of society based on the way they’ll turn out. Not to mention you don’t own your children - you have a duty of care towards them.

yes I’m sure she’s not the happiest person either and maybe her life didn’t turn out the way it wanted or she has various stresses going on her and my sympathy goes to her if that’s the case. However, this doesn’t excuse the fact it can and most likely will have a terrible impact on the children’s self esteem and development. And it’s not even about judging her, my first concern would be for the children rather than seeking to punish or shame the mum.

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Thank you for this sane post.

A shocking number of emotional abuse apologists on this thread.

abouttobecomeagrandparent · 31/10/2023 22:26

My instinct would be to speak to her about her less than great parenting. But my life experience tells me that she might have been dealing with some terrible news/shock so I'd keep out of it unless a child was in danger.

greenhydrangea · 31/10/2023 22:26

She chose to come on Mumsnet to chastise another mother who can't defend herself. You can bet I'm judging.

She came on MN as she was unsure whether or not she should have intervened - that is, said something to the woman about her abusive behaviour towards her children. Nothing was said about alerting authorities.

The ones who can't defend themselves in this situation are the young children.

I'm judging too - the 80% plus posters who seem to think child abuse is okay.

Singleandproud · 31/10/2023 22:28

I have a neighbour that shouts and tells her children off all the time, often in a very aggressive way, screaming and shouting and swearing at them it's emotional neglect at best and has the potential to get worse on both accounts as the children get older as they retaliate. When it's extreme I report to NSPCC and the children's school on one occasion to the police, occasionally people with clipboards turn up. I suspect she has MH and send needs and her children attend a specialist school so I know it's not easy but she is the adult and MH and SEND is no excuse for being abusive.

She needs help, support and some respite and unfortunately the only way for her to get that is to let other agency's know.

If I saw a stranger behaving as you did there is very little you can do unless they are wearing something identifiable

crew2022 · 31/10/2023 22:30

I'd think frazzled mum at the end of her tether with possibly relationship problems or financial worries in the background. I've been there and a supportive comment would go along way.

pumpkinpie25 · 31/10/2023 22:31

ChiefWiggumsBoy · 31/10/2023 22:25

You know what? I get really ticked off with these faux-I-was-so-upset-with-this-mother post.

You didn't say anything, you didn't care enough about either the mother or the children to do so in the moment. If you did, maybe the mum would have burst into tears. I know I've been short with my own kids when I'm barely holding it together - and like a sixth sense that's when their behaviour is at its worst. Maybe she would have jumped up and shouted at you, let's be real here, you didn't trust your judgement enough that this chavvy mum wouldn't clock you one, you weren't prepared to risk insult or injury to 'save' those children. Even though you were with your husband.

Of course, maybe she is abusive. There's always that possibility. So now you've done nothing to challenge an abusive mother either. I'm really not sure what you want from here other than a pat on the back for identifying an upset mum and her upset children.

Absolutely this.

Basically what you want is recognition for noticing how badly someone else was parenting. By default a humble brag about how your parenting is so much better.

Well done you.

MidnightOnceMore · 31/10/2023 22:36

I'm judging too - the 80% plus posters who seem to think child abuse is okay.

There's a lot of rather aggressive replies on this thread, I'm surprised by the number of people supporting the behaviour described.

But mum was really telling them off - for the whole journey of about half an hour, all you could hear from her were loud angry commands to sit down, shut up, threats that they are not going to go trick or treating, etc. She didn't say a single thing to them that wasn't a command or telling them off, and her voice was loud and angry. This is not ok.

Screamingabdabz · 31/10/2023 22:45

Challengemonica · 31/10/2023 22:23

Screamingabdabz - you weren't there, not was I so we really don't know. But interesting you say she should be 'ashamed' that's a very strong word. A very long history of women who should be ashamed and shaming women of course is what this often comes down to. What if we didn't shame? What if we offered a hand of friendship? I'd better shut up, me and my appalling attitude again. Best go off and be ashamed of myself, quietly.

PS if the woman is committing a crime or endangering the children, OP should call the police. She chose to come on Mumsnet to chastise another mother who can't defend herself. You can bet I'm judging.

I was quite a shouty impatient mum with my kids. I should’ve been ‘ashamed’ (and I am) for all the times I was less than patient. My kids were good kids and it was not their fault that I was frazzled and fucked off.

Why should women be let off for talking to their kids like shit and manhandling them roughly like this train arsehole did? It is shameful and there is no excuse.

Notalldogs23 · 31/10/2023 22:50

She sounds like a controlling bully, I'm amazed how many posters are saying she probably had a bad day, her behaviour was unacceptable, but I don't know what I woukd have done as she didn't actually hit them.

Poor kids.

Teder · 31/10/2023 22:52

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The majority of child abusers are not women.

Child abuse is in categories so which one is it that women are the majority?

Teder · 31/10/2023 22:54

greenhydrangea · 31/10/2023 22:26

She chose to come on Mumsnet to chastise another mother who can't defend herself. You can bet I'm judging.

She came on MN as she was unsure whether or not she should have intervened - that is, said something to the woman about her abusive behaviour towards her children. Nothing was said about alerting authorities.

The ones who can't defend themselves in this situation are the young children.

I'm judging too - the 80% plus posters who seem to think child abuse is okay.

This one-off incident is unlikely to be viewed as child abuse. It might be a sign of child abuse. It certainly is not healthy, good parenting. Those poor kids.

I have to say, if one genuinely believes they have witnessed child abuse, they should go out of their way to find some method to report it. (I’m not referring to the OP but generally.)

Challengemonica · 31/10/2023 22:57

Screamingabdabz - I happen to think it's shameful that no-one steps in to offer help to a woman who's struggling. One woman and three kids - everyone else looks on tutting - utterly shameful. Individuals - usually women - are expected to carry the shame for a society that has failed them. It's an old story.